Maranellos are disappearing

Markets base for a long long time before they breakout, again what did 365 GTB and 246 GT trade at for many years? They have not been $600k for 365 gtb forever have they henry?

 

all enzo era cars.

we can agree to disagree

 

Just to give one more data point on current 550 market in Europe. I did fly south over the weekend to look one example which has entered market recently. Same dealer has several cars. Some of them have been on offer for well over a year. During that time one has lost over third of the asking price and still there don't seem to be so much interest on it that it would actually sell. Two newcomers on same dealer have been priced below where this long timer is now meaning prices are totally different than in height of market in mid 2016. Since then I would say actual sale prices have come down 1-2k euros/month on average. We 're still far from where market was in 2012ish at 40-60k asking prices but direction has been towards it for a while now.

Car I looked at was not perfect but it wasn't total basket case either. With some work but not necessarily huge monetary investment it would be ok driver. In the end difference between my offer and dealers bottom line was maybe 5k. Low 60k euro offer and it would have been done deal. This means about -15% of from public asking price. Since specs were not exactly what I'm looking for I was not willing to go as high as what would have been enough for them. I'm not sure how in reality that one dealer sees current market but salesman and main guy himself both said past 18 months or thereabouts downward trend stopped exactly last Saturday during my visit and now prices can only go up. We'll see.

My feeling is that downward trend continues for a while more. This is based on fact that usual European sale sites have more cars available that probably ever before. Also most new cars coming for sale have asking prices mostly on lower end of spread and yet cars do not seem to move anywhere fast. I think this is reverse to market we saw some years ago. Daytona's go up, BB's follow along, people start to predict what's next one to go up. Clear choice is TR and after them 550 and 575. Now we are seeing same on reverse but just more slowly. Daytona's are not anymore always 700k cars and BB can be had near 200k instead of over 300k. TR's, 550 and 575 are all coming down. It is unlikely were will again see 40k asking prices on 550's but when 40k price drop over 18 months isn't enough to sell ok condition 550 and it is not just one individual case like this its obvious market is heading down. My bet is that bottom on asking prices one year from now is in 50 something and many cars which are now in 80-100k range will be in 70-90k and actual sale prices for those cars start at under 60k.

 

I've observed a similar trend in the UK market. Obviously we have our own special set of potential economic banana skins that could present themselves over the next year or so but I feel we mirror the above description of where the market is.

Many of the cars I viewed in the UK are commission sales (sale or return) and you get a different attitude from the dealers with this kind of transaction. I've found more than one openly saying the car I viewed is overpriced (in the current market as advertised and the owner is going to have to drop his expectations if he actually wants to make a sale.

To give a specific I drove this car a few weeks ago:-

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/ferrari/575/ferrari-575-m-maranello-manual/8776212

A manual 575 (with mid to highish miles that take it out of "collector" status).

The owner has been trying to move this on since early 2017. Through this dealer in early 2017 the car was advertised at north of GBP 200,000 and offer of GBP190,000 was made but the owner was holding out for GBP 195,000 - The deal fell through.

It then went to RM Auctions London last year where bidding stalled at GBP 140,000. (documented in the manual 575 watch thread)

It's now on offer at GBP 130,000 and the current dealer suggest GBP 110,000 is a more realistic number at which he thinks a deal could be done.

I'm still tempted, but I've had a good think about it and I still think 110K is too much and it appears so does everyone else as I was the first to physically view and drive the car since it was advertised.

I'll keep looking and eventually the right car at the right price will present itself. Having driven both F1 and manual though I really enjoyed the manual, which has got me looking at 550's now as well as 575's

 

It will be interesting to see how the value of the 550 and 575 F1 compare when they reach collectible age.

 

That's interesting to read. Good point about SORs, as well, which are prevalent in the UK. It will be interesting to see how things pan out in 12 months - I suspect either sellers will want to really sell, or buyers will make a move, will be strange if this non-market continues, but I haven't been observing the market long enough whether that's a thing that manifests itself every decade or two in classic cars.

 

I visited The Ferrari Centre today to have a look at the three 550's they had in stock. To date I've only actively looked at 575's and it would be short sighted to discount a 550 without even looking/trying one. I was drawn there as the prices seemed more realistic. I guess I was right as two of the three cars had sold for asking price this week (99k & 95K) Both sub 30,000 mile car and very well cared for. The remaining one the owner umming and ahhing about selling it as he's missed it since giving to them to market. That is a 27K mile car and was also in lovely condition, Argento over Black. However it confirmed I don't want a car with a black interior. Beige, Sabbia, Crema is my preference.

Nothing there was tatty or unloved. Every car I looked at, no matter the model or mileage, was clean and well presented. There's a lovely 355 Berlinetta for sale. Very pretty, just not something I'd want to own. The front engined V12's is what I'm really after.

The sales guy there (Matt) was approachable and knowledgeable and I felt they were just the kind of company I want to do business with. So even if I don't buy from them, it's where there car will be going for an inspection and servicing work.

He did say the last 575 (a manual) they had in was over a year ago, it was advertised for GBP 150K eventually sold for £120K. It was a low mileage car.

So nice cars are selling quickly, if they are priced correctly. That's always the way though.

We recently moved house and it took us nearly two years to find the right house. The moment we found the right one (not what we thought we'd been looking for!) the deal was done the day we viewed. I get the feeling this car hunt is going the same way. The right one, at the right price, in the right condition will present itself and there'll be no need to negotiate.

 

I an very lucky that I don’t need or want to sell my high milage 550 Maranello. It gets better and better the longer I own it with weekly small improvements. I would not say no to a F12 which i really like. But not before I can afford a F12, will I sell the 550. As a perfect travel companion and solid hobby-car, it suits my needs perfectly. I never bought it as an investment either. Maybe (hopefully), I see myself driving it still in ten years from now. It is like a Rolex watch. It just runs perfect forever. That is the feeling I have.

550 on the rocks! Pure Ferrari V12.
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Erik, your 550 is beautiful. Much better looking than an F12. Don't even think about a swap!!

I only wish my Rolex were as reliable as my 550!

 

Apols if someone has posted this before, but here's a recent price point. High miles (80k miles) 550 with a strange aftermarket exhaust (anyone know this one?) stickies need doing and airbag cover, UK RHD, sold for £61.5k at auction. Not a car I would buy from the pictures anyway but..

https://www.historics.co.uk/buying/auctions/2018-07-07/cars/ref-163-1998-ferrari-550-maranello/

 

Image Unavailable, Please Login Monterey Sale

 

What did it fetch?

 

$181,500.

 

Looks like a really nice one. Low mile HGTC in the right colour for a sale.

Are there any HGTCs on the market in the US? Would be good to know their asking prices if so.

 

Impressive, shocked at the premium, ferrari ft lauderdale by me had a 4k miles red 575 for sale recently they tried for $149k for a while ended up dropping to $129k before i saw it vanish, not sure what they got for it but interesting that its $50-60k more for that option. $181.5k before premium?

 

Image Unavailable, Please Login Here’s one with a “premium”

 

Holy...!!!!! Wow!!!

 

Amazing that a different suspension and a manual tranny will get a 400k premium !

 

No lie, sir. That has to be the strongest SA sale to date, I guess?

 

I know there's only 39 of them, but probably top of the market, on friday the 2 year and 10 year bonds were at their closest to inverting since 2007 at 19 basis points. Yield curve inverting has 100% accuracy in predicting recession. We're that close to the end of the great bull market.

 

HGTC is very rare on 575Ms and cost approximately $30K when new. It also means she has all the 575M updates and 180 ms min shift speed like the 612 and SA. Effectively F1A without the funky switch differences.


No surprise on the big premium paid by someone who understands 575s.

 

This one is a manual car though, isn't it? (Maybe there is a reason for the quotation marks around six speed in the listing ) I get all of that, but still...wow!! Not saying it isn't a good thing - I'm stoked there are other people out there who "get it" and will shell out for really nice examples. That's what, a $400k premium +/-?

 

Not talking about the SA. Around 40% of the SAs had HGTC, but only 10 or so 3 pedals made it to the US.

 

Top cars are going for top prices, like they say. Two tier market.

 

and yet I got offered $70k recently on a trade in for my 575 with 21k miles lol. What a world.