430 Manual versus Automatic

There are many manual F430's under 200 Eur. Where are you living?

 

The F1 is a lot of fun but the manual is more involving but will be slower and less frenetic/crazy. Think of the manual as the last link to the involved v8 mid engined drive. The F1 is a fun crazy drive with the high redline enabling perfect shifts every time. In terms of maintenance F1 is reasonable as long as you have a good mechanic nearby who knows how to troubleshoot and calibrate the F1 clutch otherwise it can be frustrating. No such problems with the manual. Also on the whole the F1 will eat up the clutch more than manual so you will likely require a clutch change around twice as often with the F1. But when you get used to the F1 and its actuation mechanism it's a lot of fun, best single clutch automated manual in my opinion. I would go with F430, get one you can afford manual vs. F1 and if you can't afford then go to 360 you can afford. They're both awesome cars.

 

Another option for your consideration

I could not afford the F430 6spd premium either

You can get an F430 F1, and then you can convert it to a 6spd, which is what I did (well I had it converted)

This put it within reach for me.

As a car to own, and occasionally drive, it is hard to beat a F430 6spd, and in my case, spider.

If you're ever in New Jersey, I'd gladly take you for a run.

Good luck on your journey.

 

Ditto, I did the same. Really, the OEM 6 speeds are collector cars based on the market value, not daily drivers because the OEM 6 speed imparts no additional benefit over the conversion. So if the OP wants to drive the car, it makes no sense to buy an OEM 6 speed over a conversion.

 

Manual is a lot more involving and rewarding for the driver if he/she does everything right (heel toe, rev matching, de-clutch etc), F1 on the other hand is much easier to live with at the limit, and definitely slightly faster on track handle by the same talent.

 

I don't do any of that you describe. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm sure you're right. However, none of that is necessary unless you want to keep your clutch in good shape for a couple thousand more miles than if you didn't. I have driven manuals nearly half my driving life and never heel toe, rev match etc. I don't feel its interfered with my driving pleasure one bit. Yeah, I might have to replace the throw out bearings, clutch and flywheel sooner, but to be honest, its not a daily driver anyway. I never learned to drive a manual doing any of that and frankly my feet are too large and I'm too old to bother learning it. All of this is to say, the OP doesn't need to learn those methods to feel more engagement.

 

F1 is a much better proposition when you're driving above 7/10ths; I found the manual to be a real hindrance on the F430 on some faster but technical roads. The 360 may be OK as that's quite a bit slower (although it is still a fast car in real terms).

The manual was a lot more engaging at lower speeds.

 

I think it's true, the F1, when its working properly, is a better system on technical roads. However, most people will never exceed the car's capability on technical roads to make a difference. For me, the long term maintenance difference between the two firmly puts the manual far ahead of the F1 in overall ownership experience.

 

@Kent Adams you are correct you don't need to do any of these this stuff to enjoy a manual. However there is a different level of manual-ness to any manual car. That has to do with how responsive the throttle is to input, how quickly the engine revs up and down (light flywheel), how the transmission linkage feels, and how the clutch engages etc. So, with that in mind the F430 manual or conversion is one of the very best manual sports car and in that sense now, if you enjoy a higher level of engagement such as double clutching and rev matching then the F430 is one of the very best if not the best overall manual experience.

To give you an example, if you take the Audi R8 with the manual (also gated shifter) it is much less rewarding than the manual F430, throttle is not as responsive etc. Take a 991.2 GT3/Touring, again same thing amazing car but it's hobbled by the flat foot shifting software preventing proper double clutching and unless you use the factory rev-matching in sport mode it is not as much fun as the F430 to have a pure manual experience. Take the Shelby GT350, also a rifle bolt transmission with good clutch, the throttle response and rev willingness is nowhere near to F430 even though they are both flat plane cranked engines.

So in summary... F430 manual rules for manual-ness short of a Carrera GT...

 

As long as you are enjoying it, that's what matter most!

 

That makes perfect sense to me. My thought is that the OP may think he has to learn all those techniques to enjoy a manual over the F1. I would even say if he hasn't mastered those techniques, the F430 is probably not the car to learn on due to the power. Large feet can be a detriment too in learning to heel toe on the F430 due to the narrow placement of the pedals on the manual.

I wish I had learned all those techniques 30 years ago when my feet were smaller.

 

Get a cheap manual car to practise, not on the Ferrari otherwise could get really expensive.

 

I agree completely. The maintenance aspect should be a large consideration. I consider the F1 system to be relatively fragile.

The benefit of each system should be weighed up against the usage pattern of the car, driving style, and appetite for maintenance.

 

The price spread between the F1 and 6 speed F430 in the US is at least $43,000 (last two BAT sales, $188k for a 21k mile 05 coupe versus $145k for a 9k mile 07 Spider). Two 07s sold in June, the 6 speed coupe (conversion) with 9k miles hit $193k versus $120k for a 24k mile coupe).

 

No. That $188k manual had odometer discrepancies and that killed any chance of it having a market adjusted true value. The $193k was for a conversion, not OEM. The prior 6 speed manual was $308k. The true difference between an F1 and OEM manual is at a minimum $150k. The conversions are near $200k in fair market value and the OEM are around $300k, though there was a recent sale of an OEM at $400k.

 

I agree with both @kentadams and @catdog.

There is no need to revmatch the 430, the flywheel is so light, the car does not jolt or get noticeably upset when downshifting. In stark contrast, my Porsches HAVE to be revmatched, as they will get a nasty jolt.

regardless, for pleasure, the f430 is a joy to revmatch, engine is so responsive and sounds are intoxicating. Pedals are very close, but I prefer it that way, I can just blip with the side of my foot. On my Porsches, pedals are spaced further and I have to do a full heel and toe.

IMO the track arguments for f1 are not practical. If u have sufficient funds to routinely track an f1 430, I think u can afford a better combo of car, a more track focused car in addition to a nice gated fcar for street driving.

 

What I really enjoyed about the f1 is that it encouraged more hoolaginism. I would aggressively downshift to engine brake, even into 1st, which sounded and felt amazing. I would never do this in my gated 430, which offers a different type of fun

 

I could read threads like this all day long. So great reading everyone talking about their F430 driving experience and the associated gearbox.

To your original post Cristoph

Note, there is an 'Automatic' mode and an F1 mode.

In automatic, the car shifts all on it's own. I expect most people don't use this, it eats the clutch and while I expect it's still an enjoyable driving experience, there is the least amount of driver engagement.

When using F1 mode, you control when shifts occur using the paddles and the car does the shift, with rev match, for you. This is a blast to do in the F430 and gives the driver tremendous ability as you basically can't screw up the shift. All the car has to offer is literally at your fingertips, it is utterly wild.

The 6 spd is just that. I personally enjoy the experience of performing the shift using the 3 pedal and stick (in any car, and this one is other-worldly), so for me, no other factors are relevant, that's what makes it enjoyable for me. Each gear is an incredible place to be. They each have their own personality and capability and you really get to enjoy each of them fully. It's just you, the stick, the pedal and that amazing amazing engine.

I've driven my car in both modes (F1 and 6spd) and both modes are unbelievable. You won't go wrong with either and chances are you'll love what you have.

I'd say get a nice F1, and keep an eye on the conversion market. Enjoy it as an F1, and when the time and option for you is out there, convert it. By then, you'll know what the F1 has to offer and maybe at a meet, etc, someone will let you try their 6spd so you can see if you're interested in that.

This way you'll know for sure what works for you.

 

As if by magic... look at this article that appeared in the Atlantic. It may help answer some of your questions:

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2022/08/stick-shift-manual-transmission-cars/671078/