The Lusso with the "GTO" nose was housed at RM Auction's building in Ypsilanti, Michigan (before it closed). It was, at the time, owned by a Canadian business man who had also owned an early series black California spyder.
Almost certainly there is a difference between LHD and RHD examples of both tipo....RHD and "driving" condition 250 GTE's long past €120k, rare not least because of the number of "chopped" chassis, to make a variety of fakey-doos, replicars and tribute cars, whilst "driving condition " RHD Daytona's are currently cheaper than some limited production Dino 246 variants. E
I agree Paul, it took no time at all to adjust to the speedo in the center even driving an unfamiliar car in an unfamiliar country on the opposite side of the road. Below are a couple quick videos that show the speedo while driving. http://youtu.be/AQp73BavHJw http://youtu.be/ORVFYmJvXDk
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWt9bZLdJMU[/ame] [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsH2To4U_PA[/ame]
It was a driving condition 250 GTE. Have a look at the 250 GTE offered by Redline Restorations, it is offered for a long time now and didn't find any buyer ... 185$ that's little over 140 for the car and the restoration. IMO the 250 GTE isn't a nice looking car - the engine is the best about and there are not that much original cars that survived, that's it - I would prefere every 365 GTC/4 or 330 GT 2+2 Series 2
Here is my response to the start of the thread. Firstly Paul I think it is dangerous to compare two models of cars and expect the ratio to stay constant. Peoples taste change over time and that will cause the ratio to shift. We are dealing with cars which are highly emotional, aspirational for people. We are also dealing with two very different cars with different production numbers (177 for SWB, circa 300 for Lusso). I also think the economy today is very different than the economy 10 or 15 years ago. People today are also buying classic cars as an investment given that interest rates are close to zero. Wealthy people are also flocking to hard assets and what better way to have fun than with a 250 SWB. The 250 SWB is the ultimate blue chip Ferrari (besides the GTO), it is around the world probably the most sought after Ferrari. That cannot be said of the Lusso no matter how beautiful and elegant it is. The ratio has shifted and it makes sense in my opinion and reflects the times we are living in. Will the ratio shift back in favour of the Lusso one day? Perhaps. But understanding classic cars in relation to each other is difficult. I think it works better in finance when comparing two companies to each other that are similar. If the valuation shifts to far apart then often its profitable to make a bet that the trend will reverse again.
Agreed, IMHO, the Steve McQueen Lusso (which sold for an unbeleivable price due to his personal cachet) gave the rest ofL ussos a big bump
To get back to the original question, IMHO there are two elements upon which to reflect. First, there never was such an animal as a factory competition Lusso, hence very little in the way of comp history to stir up the excitement. Second, it is fairly well known that Lussos are a bit nose-heavy, while the SWB is the kind of car which is often pictured in that classic 4-wheel drift. The SWB is simply a better car to drive. Styling is an issue that is in the eye of the beholder, so I see no point in getting into the discussion. Have owned 7 Lussos and 5 SWB's. And yes, I do think Lussos are under-valued as compared with the rest of the market, but then I think the whole market is nuts. It feels like 1990 all over again to me, but then my crystal ball is defunct, so what do I know?
As I said previously, I have never driven a Lusso. It was only a guess at people’s perception and what it may be like to view the speedometer on the Lusso, which is the furthest away of the 2 clocks from the driver. Admittedly, the unconventional central clocks may only be one of a number of minor reasons the Lusso hasn't maintained its 1/3rd value of a SWB Berlinetta and this reason more relevant in period when it would have been used more as a mode of transport, and to a present day driving enthusiast who would need to read the clocks in contrast to the non driving investor buyers, the majority of whom you have said previously are moving the market who conversely could see the clocks' visual appeal and uniqueness as a positive. Uninteresting? Maybe, but not nonsense as there must be an element of truth in what I’m saying as one of the reasons that Matthew's (Daytonafan) father moved his Lusso on was that the view in front with the clocks was distracting (see below). Your belligerent responses are uncalled for. I do not post nonsense for the sake of increasing the tally of my posts. Paul, before publicly stating that somebody posts “nonsense” and “total nonsense” may I suggest that you make sure that your information sources are not as ill informed and as ignorant of the facts as you are. Read the following threads: A number of replies here are from an ex Traffic Police Officer: http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=75692 http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=Apj9kYZ3Laa54Oq8TX0Els5JBgx.;_ylv=3?qid=20130106212238AAPEgZW http://www.turbosport.co.uk/showthread.php?224260-ANPR-vs-BLACK-AND-SILVER-NUMBER-PLATES http://www.rodsnsods.co.uk/forum/chat/do-cameras-recognise-black-silver-number-plates-69646 See posts 7 and 8 here: http://www.bsabantamclub.com/forum/general-discussion/do-these-old-reg-plates-still-pick-up-speed-cameras See myth 2 here: http://cars.uk.msn.com/news/articles.aspx?cp-documentid=147862783 http://www.landyzone.co.uk/lz/f6/gatso-specs-etc-wont-pick-up-black-white-silver-plates-85349.html Speaking on the telephone to Mr Malcolm Dean of the South Wales Police Speed Camera Unit yesterday, he informed me that speed cameras are able to photograph black and silver number plates as found on pre 1973 cars. In fact Mr Dean has seen many speeding Notices of Intended Prosecution generated, not only from the wet and digital photographs of cars with black and silver number plates, but DVD videos of them too. For your information his email address is [email protected] A Speed Camera Engineer at SERCO, a company responsible for the supply and maintenance of Speed Enforcement Cameras including GATSO in the UK, again informed me that there is no issue with UK speed cameras’ ability to photograph the black and silver number plates of classic cars. Web Site here: http://www.serco.com/markets/transport/roadtraffic.asp The UK Operations Director, Mr Peter Hill of Truvelo, who manufacture many UK speed cameras again confirmed, both on the telephone and in writing, no issue other than the quality of the image in poor lighting and adverse weather conditions. Web site here: http://www.truvelouk.com/ His reply in writing including contact details below: "Dear Mr Robertson, Re: Vintage Licence Plates. I can confirm that our speed camera system will photograph an old black/silver licence plate. The camera will photograph anything within its field of vision. The only issue would be the quality of the image which is largely governed by lighting and weather conditions. e.g very dark night and pouring rain less conducive to quality image, versus bright sunny day. A modern retro-reflective plate would give greater contrast and be more suited to poor lighting conditions. Regards Peter Hill Director UK Operations Truvelo (UK)Ltd 020 8847 4400 07831 774432"
Steve. I dont know why I am bothering to respond to this as your views on UK road safety have absolutely no connection to my original post regarding the percentage values of the Lusso and SWB. However I do assure you that when I used the word Nonsense I was being extremely polite ! To state that a buyer would be deterred from purchasing a Lusso due to the positioning of the speedometer is totally misleading....I do note however that you now claim that your previous bold statement was a guess........With regard to the speed cameras I speak from experience. I live in a city that probably has more cameras per mile than any other in the world and I know that when I have exceeded the 30 MPH limit on demonstration or whatever the cameras cannot or do not record if the car is wearing the old Black plates...Sadly the same cameras are extremely efficient if I am driving a more modern car....That is fact. Please dont spend the rest of your day searching Google for some remote African village that has more cameras than London....I have used the word Probably...... I shall not be responding to anymore of your Informative comments.
I live in the same city. My black plates are not picked up by either the congestion zone or speed cameras. Could be something to do with the size but in any event lets keep it a secret !!!
Here is the copy of the email I today sent to Mr Graham Rogers of the MPS Safety Camera Enforcement Unit and his reply including contact details are below. 10th January, 2013. FAO Mr Graham Rogers Operations Manager MPS Safety Camera Enforcement TP Traffic Criminal Justice Metropolitan Police Service Dear Mr Rogers, Re: LONDON SPEED CAMERAS - BLACK & SILVER NUMBER PLATES ON PRE 1973 CLASSIC CARS. Please would you be kind enough to confirm if speed cameras in London are able to photograph pre 1973 cars with the black and silver or black and white number plates. I have been told that speed cameras in London cannot or do not photograph these and I would be extremely grateful for clarification on this matter and if you would furnish me with the facts. I thank you in advance for your reply. Yours sincerely, Steven Robertson. The reply from Mr Graham Rogers of the Metropolitan Police Service: Mr Robertson Thank you for your enquiry regarding Black and Silver number plates. These types of registration plates can and indeed are, photographed by the camera equipment used within the Metropolitan Police Area. I hope this answers your query, please contact me if you require further information. Kind regards Graham Rogers ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Graham Rogers | Operations Manager | MPS Safety Camera Enforcement Unit | TP - Traffic Criminal Justice | Metropolitan Police Service Met Phone 766970 | Tel 0207 230 6970 | Email [email protected] Address 7th Floor, Marlowe House, Sidcup, Kent, DA15 7ES
What do you expect the police to say? "No, we have no way of enforcing speed limits to those cars"? I can't believe that's what I posted on in his thread...
Many camera systems are tuned to only pick up local standard plates, because sorting through the rest generates so many false ids (foreign plates, special plates etc. and sorting them through costs too much compared to gains). I hope somebody corrects this now when it has been brought to their attention that the system misses a pretty common format of local plates and owners are taking advantage of this!
I agree that's fair comment but do consider all the answers in the thread in the link and in post 63 above: http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=75692
Three cheers for those escaping the system. The proliferation of road cameras in the UK are all about generating money and about road safety
Yea, you used my video! Good stuff David http://www.512bbi.com http://www.gtb4.com http://www.250gtl.com
In an effort to get back to the spirit of the original thread....... I find the variation in prices of different models really interesting. I was at a Ferrari owners do in the summer chatting to an owner of a 330GTS. To my eye a pretty but entirely underwhelming car. He told me he was mulling over a plan to sell the 330 and buy an F40 AND a Dino AND bank a couple of hundred thousand pounds!! How can this be? HOW can the value of these cars be so high? More than the Lusso and 3-4 Daytonas!!! There do seem to be rather a lot for sale these days. Or do such values smack of a "bubble", in some models maybe if not the market in general? There have been a number of threads discussing values recently and they all eventually arrive at the same conclusion, that they are all wonderful cars and discussing values is slightly obsecene and the cars should be enjoyed for the wonderful creations they are. Whilst I subscribe wholly to this idea this question of relative values is all rather fascinating and curious.
I am doing research and wanted to know the weight of a Lusso (empty tank) in Kg. Or Pounds and I will convert it to Kg. With many thanks!
