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Lotus Esprit vs Z06

Discussion in 'General Automotive Discussion' started by Johnny USA, Jan 3, 2004.

  1. wax

    wax Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Jul 20, 2003
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    A nonhuman such as your elf, Troll, is hardly capable of passing judment. (_!_)
     
  2. allanlambo

    allanlambo F1 Rookie

    Jun 9, 2002
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    Well, lets see. In reality, we know im human, and in reality, we know you dont have a Ferrari. So maybe you should keep to judging Saabs, which as everyone knows are Fantastic cars, in every catagory.
     
  3. netviper

    netviper Formula Junior

    Nov 2, 2003
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    I agree. The reality is no car has a soul. It is a freaking machine. Some are better than others. Some excite more than others. Some are more reliable than others. Everyone will have their own opinons. But to simply say "your car has no soul" is the STUPIDEST thing I have ever heard. Maybe they are just as-souls..

    Funny, I drove my friends 360 and it was amazing. Then we went for a ride in my NSX and he says... hmm.. I dont think my was worth 3x this. He didn't say anything about a lack of soul. He really liked it. Infact, he offered to go for a drive in the future and swap cars. What a great guy!

    I don't understand why people have to be snobs about their cars. We are all enthusiasts here.
     
  4. chrislamborghiniatlanta

    chrislamborghiniatlanta Formula Junior

    Dec 23, 2003
    335
    I think that you are overreacting. When someone says that a car has "no soul", they are simply referring to the fact that it lacks a certain air of excitement, or making you feel like you are in control of a wild beast. The NSX is simply put a tame automobile. It is very easy to drive, which for some is great; it is very reliable, which for some is fantastic; it is very flat, which to some would leave them searching for a term to describe the lack of excitement. This is where someone would come up with the saying that a car has no soul. If you can't understand that, and come to grips with that then you cannot be helped. It is not an insult, which is what you have obviously failed to grasp. It is just someones interpretation of their driving experience in a car that you happen to own and be completely smitten with. Some people may not hospitably share their view of your car, but you are also on a website devoted to "ITALIAN" automobiles. You were upset with Allan for making a remark on that "prime" site that you keep referring to and yet you come to an Italian car site and puff up your chest and beat it when someone makes what you interpret to be an off color comment about your brand and model of car. Remember, at the end of the day, Allan has owned all of these cars!!! If I had to pick between the two of your opinions on which car to purchase, should I rely on the guy with the experience behind the wheel of several cars that he has "owned" or some one who has read all of the literature and stats?
    On this particular board I am finding that the people who post here are passionate about Italian cars, not Jap cars. I would deem you lucky that more people have not jumped in to say something negative about it. I will leave it at this and say nothing else about the topic, the NSX is a fine car. Is it 10x this or that, or less than the other is for the beholder to decide. I will say this though, it is probably time to put this thread to bed and start another. I don't even remember how an NSX got brought into this as I thought we were speaking about an Esprit and a Z06 which ironically is odd to find on this board also. Oh well, goodnight.
     
  5. Chevarri

    Chevarri Formula Junior

    Jan 20, 2003
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    In a rose bush.
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    Simple really, some "enthusiasts" are less humble then others.
    I personally enjoyed every car Ive been allowed to get behind the wheel of. From sports cars to econo-boxes. Did the Corolla or CRX push me into my seat like a turbo Supra or NSX? No, but I got a "kick" out of those cars none the less.
     
  6. allanlambo

    allanlambo F1 Rookie

    Jun 9, 2002
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    NetViper, im going to side with you on this one. Sort of. The reason i hate the 360, is that it is lacking in the same areas as the Nsx in the soul department. Inmo, the 360 is not worth 3X the price of an Nsx either. Its boring. But being boring at 150,000 is not acceptable.
     
  7. netviper

    netviper Formula Junior

    Nov 2, 2003
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    It's a miracle! :)

    I liked the 360 a lot, but I would like to drive a 355 to compare. It was obvious to me the 360 had a lot more midrange power than my nsx.
     
  8. gabriel

    gabriel Formula 3

    Hehe... you know Allen, at first I was a little bothered by your style of posts, but I've come around to looking forward to reading them - you have real world experience. :)

    So, what's the deal with the Elise? Why does everyone trash it?
    I don't know too much about it, except that it's a 38k new, under 5 second 0-60 car.

    Actually, I'm starting to look around at a few Lotus - looking for more brutal 1/4 mile times than the TR. Not that I would part with it. :)
     
  9. Mako99

    Mako99 Formula Junior
    BANNED

    Dec 29, 2003
    454
    Chris is spot on, NSX owners are so sensitive to any mention of the car not having any "soul" which is truthfully a reference to it being boring.

    I own a 99 NSX-T, and it in no way, shape, or form, is it as exciting as a base 360, which is not saying much. And compared to a 360 CS, the NSX is a milk truck on the excitement scale.

    I got tired of all the "our car is so misunderstood, it's actually the bestest best best sports car in the whole universe!!!" threads over at Prime, so I've stopped participating on that board. Too many little kiddies own used early model NSXs that they bought for $30k, and are running their gums without ever driving any other exoticar. Very similar to Supra drivers, and somewhat similar to young 308 owners here: Ultra-biased, not willing to keep an open mind to competitors because they can't afford them, and so in love with the marque (Honda or Ferrari) that they're blind to every other option.

    The NSX was a revolution in its day, and is still a great looking car (well mine is being 1" lowered and with 18/19 Volk GT-Cs on it) but on the sportscar scale it's continuosly being knocked down the list by newer better market competitors. Can you imagine that some fools actually buy these cars NEW, and then watch them depreciate by -40% in the first two years? Amazing. I picked up my with 8k miles on it for $48k, lol.

    It was a good pitstop on the way to a real sportscar.
     
  10. allanlambo

    allanlambo F1 Rookie

    Jun 9, 2002
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    Id go for an Esprit over an Elise. Elise is to Mr2ish for me. Couple mods on an Esprit and youll be having great fun, plus bone stock they are much quicker than an early TR.
     
  11. saiid

    saiid Karting

    Jan 6, 2004
    52
    London, UK
    Gabriel, the Elise is very good. It is one of the most exciting cars you can drive, but at lower speeds only. It has no top-end, so if you like driving at high speeds, this is not the car for you. It is also not a daily driver by any stretch. But as a second/third car, for weekend blasts, track-work, etc. its great. A real hoot. Test drive one and you'll be surprised at how good it is.

    Main negatives for me:
    I really don't like the looks. Too kit-car ish
    No top-end speed. I like driving around the clock.
    Sounds awful.
    Poor build.

    Some of these may be fixed in the new US version. I haven't seen that yet.
     
  12. netviper

    netviper Formula Junior

    Nov 2, 2003
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    Wow. What a stupid comment. Thank god you stopped posting on prime if you have that attitude. Yes, there are some punks, but I bet you will have a hard time finding a better bunch of guys.

    Maybe you should skip the Comptech SC and just buy a 328 so you can have a real sportscar. :rolleyes:
     
  13. Mako99

    Mako99 Formula Junior
    BANNED

    Dec 29, 2003
    454
    Who said anything about the 328? That car is a$$ to me. As is the 308. They are both romantic cars for Ferrari fans to remind them of their youth, and their owners usually fall into one of two camps:

    1. Have too much money and want to complete their F-car collection.

    OR

    2. Have too little money, and can't get a F355 or better.

    Back to the NSX.

    Viper your insultory tone is very typical of the "I'm an NSX owner and I feel persecuted!" crowd.

    There are indeed a good group of core guys over on Prime that I've met, but they are outweighed 100:1 by the people I described in my note.

    Plus you've even got a$$clowns over there like Sax that literally are married to their NSXs and are blinded like a Budweiser Clydsedale in terms of opening their minds. They drive a F355 and post "nope, it's not nearly the equal of my 3.0L 270HP NSX. I think it felt slower." They drive a 911TT and post "Yeah it's a tiny bit faster (LOL!), but it's not nearly the equal of my V6 NSX". They drive an Enzo and post "Thank god my awesome NSX isn't that low to the ground, forget that car!"

    Everything is an excuse over there.

    Viper your posts over there were educated and not rediculous. You're still biased as hell, and using magazines instead of seat time to battle with, but as you drive more of these cars the NSX will fade away from the front of your mind. It has for me.
     
  14. saiid

    saiid Karting

    Jan 6, 2004
    52
    London, UK
    How could anyone think a 996 TT is only a bit faster than an NSX? That's a joke right? The TT feels as though could create rifts in time and space. The NSX on the other hand is (on paper) the same as a Boxster S. Same HP, same torque, same 0-60, same layout. But obvioiusly the Boxster has better brakes ;)
     
  15. netviper

    netviper Formula Junior

    Nov 2, 2003
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    Thanks for the compliment, sort of. I am always anxious to drive other exotic sports cars. I don't think the NSX is the be all and end all by any means. I don't think many people on prime do either. However, as supercars go, there are not many that can do everything as well as the NSX. It has a great balance of power, reliability and practicality. It is not the fastest, but not the slowest and for 30K, it is a hell of a great deal IMO.

    Mako99, If you don't like the NSX, why are you investing more money in yours? Why not sell it and get a "real sportscar"?
     
  16. netviper

    netviper Formula Junior

    Nov 2, 2003
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    Nobody on NSX prime thinks a 996 TT is a little faster than a NSX. It is far faster.

    A boxster S however, is not near a 2002 NSX. A 93 NSX will beat a boxster S.
     
  17. saiid

    saiid Karting

    Jan 6, 2004
    52
    London, UK
    I guess the US spec is different. Over here, they have pretty much the same power, torque, performance figures. And the Porsche is 100 Kg lighter.

    Box S vs NSX
    260 bhp vs 276
    228 lbs vs 220
    1330 kgs vs 1410
    5.7 0-60 vs 5.5
    200 bhp/ton vs 196
    168 top spd vs 167
    3179 cc vs 3179

    I'd say these are two of the closest matched cars out there. Both mid-engined also. So what is the spec in the US. 300 bhp maybe. I have heard of a slightly different version, but this is definitely the stock one selling here now.
     
  18. netviper

    netviper Formula Junior

    Nov 2, 2003
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    I have not driven an S, but I drove the regular boxster, and it was a hunk of junk. Lots of squeak and rattles. Poor interior parts. Very slow and a horrible shifter. I was less than impressed. I would take a S2000 over one any day.

    Let me say this. A 93 will beat a Boxster S on a track and the street, but I guess they would be pretty close. Also, the boxster S first came out with 250HP and it has been upgraded for 2004.
     
  19. saiid

    saiid Karting

    Jan 6, 2004
    52
    London, UK
    Hmm.. what happened to your "A 93 NSX will toast a boxster S" comment... are you trying to make me look silly!? ;)

    Anyway new NSX should be good. Seen spy pics already. OK, we're way O/T now. Sorry guys.
     
  20. netviper

    netviper Formula Junior

    Nov 2, 2003
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    No, but I realized it would not "toast it", so I changed it. I don't want to start a flame war. I would like to drive the S. I wish they looked different than the standard boxster. Personally, I wouldn't own one.
     
  21. rudy

    rudy Formula Junior

    Jan 13, 2004
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    I drove an S2000 and it was awful. A boxster S will smoke an NSX.
     
  22. allanlambo

    allanlambo F1 Rookie

    Jun 9, 2002
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    Id say most 308/328 owners fall into the latter segment and cant afford a real Fcar, but buy one to say "I have a Ferrari".

    You are also completely correct in your assesment of the Nsxprime guys. I remember one moron posting that he drove a Diablo 6.0 and that his Nsx got more attention, and was almost as quick. I laughed my ass off. Drive up in your 3.0 Nsx and a lambo dealer wont even let you sit in a 6.0 .

    I cant believe you guys are still arguing over the Nsx. It is a nice car, thats all.
     
  23. wax

    wax Four Time F1 World Champ
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    I'll bet you did. I mean that in the nicest way possible.
     
  24. allanlambo

    allanlambo F1 Rookie

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    As for the Boxster S comments, im afraid im going to have to side with NetViper due to my own personal experience.

    I raced a Boxster S several times in my 91 Nsx on the highway. The Nsx could pull him everytime. My Nsx was stock. This was a few years ago, so im not sure on the Boxster S's power output at the time. Also, a late model Nsx, will dust a Boxster S.
     
  25. allanlambo

    allanlambo F1 Rookie

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    Hows your Saab? Did i tell you how nice those were?
     

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