Lotus Esprit vs Z06 | Page 5 | FerrariChat

Lotus Esprit vs Z06

Discussion in 'General Automotive Discussion' started by Johnny USA, Jan 3, 2004.

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  1. netviper

    netviper Formula Junior

    Nov 2, 2003
    659
    Saint Augustine
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    Dave
    A stock esprit is not much faster than a 2002+ NSX. I don't know where you get all these numbers that make it "much" faster. Where are these braking figures you are talking about that DESTROY a NSX? Where are the skidpads? Where are the real track times? I agree there is no question about straight line power, but as far as anything else, I dont see it.

    As for "bolt ons" You say yourself, if I did this the esprit and that to the esprit it is way faster... so what is the difference?

    At least a Comptech SC is warrantied on a new NSX. So I would give the NSX the advantage once again. (but i am very biased :) )

    Stock v. Stock, they are close. I would bet that it would come down to driver experience on a track.
     
  2. Tpup

    Tpup Rookie

    Nov 2, 2003
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    Roswell, GA
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    Roy
    I assume you got those numbers from www.track-challenge.com? You left out the lap times.


    NSX-R Esprit Sport 350
    Nuerburgring 8.09 8.13
    Hockenheim 1.14,6 1.15,3

    The NSX was faster, on both tracks.
     
  3. EspritSE

    EspritSE Formula Junior

    Dec 1, 2003
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    Craig
    Damn good time of 'the ring' for the NSX. I think Netviper hit the nail on the head though......

    I still want to own both.

    Craig
     
  4. richanton

    richanton Karting

    Nov 3, 2003
    55
    The Esprit is an incredible car. Very fast, reliable, easy to drive, simply gorgeous styling (imho) and a price that is very hard to beat. Can not beat the performance or style for the price. The Esprit is such a rare car that people freak when they see one, but I have noticed that people aren't as bitter as they sometimes can be when you are driving say a porsche. I have owned two Esprits, a 93 SE and I currently have a black 94 S4. Sadly I have to sell mine and am getting ready to start advertising it. I am sure I will own another in the future.

    That being said, I have never driven a Z06 but I have heard they are fast. I am a vette fan and have owned quite a few but overall, a vette is no match for an Esprit. The Esprit looks WAY better, has a nicer interior and is more exotic. I've heard that the Z06 handles very well, but I think it would be heard to beat the handling of an Esprit.
     
  5. allanlambo

    allanlambo F1 Rookie

    Jun 9, 2002
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    A stock Esprit is much faster than a stock 2002 Nsx, and i dont need magazines to substantiate braking, skidpad etc. I have driven both for thousands of miles.

    As for your bolt ons. You still cant grasp the concept. Take 2 cars, an Esprit, and an Nsx. Both same amount of money. Youd need to mod the motor, brakes and suspension on the Nsx to equal the performance fo the stock Esprit. This would cost a fair amount of money. Now your equal. But you still have car which is not exotic, and cost alot more. Now said Lotus owner goes and buys a 1800.00 red box, (can be had as low as 1300.00) and blows your doors off.

    As for the track times, yes those maybe right. BUT, i dont know, is an NSX-R street legal in the U.S.? Uh, no its not. Do street legal U.S. Nsx's post substantially worse times? YES, i already noted that. I just posted the accel #'s because the Nsx-R is substatially faster than a Reg U.S. Nsx, and the Lotus still blew it away, so imagine what it does to a regular Nsx.
     
  6. allanlambo

    allanlambo F1 Rookie

    Jun 9, 2002
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    Oh and heres your lap times, for similar U.S. road legal versions.
    Horst von Saurma (D) Lotus Esprit Sport. 354 PS. 1324 kg
    1999-05-01, sport auto Supertest 20.600 km 150.426 km/h
    8:13:000


    20,832 km 8,38 = 144 km/h Honda NSX -98 280 hp, 1998

    Is 25 seconds slower enough for you?
     
  7. Tpup

    Tpup Rookie

    Nov 2, 2003
    33
    Roswell, GA
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    Roy
    That's funny, you take some of your data from www.track-challenge.com and then ignore their lap times:)

    We might be able to agree that in stock cars it will come down to driver. Personally, I'd take an Esprit over an NSX anyday:)

    Roy

    ps. The Lotus Esprit Sport tested in europe is not even remotly a "simular US road legal version". The US Sport 350 was an Esprit with some pretty stuff bolted on. The Euro car had a lighter body (80kgs lighter, it was thinner so illegal in the US), in addition to significatly stiffer suspension (40% stiffer front/20% stiffer rear, Eibach and custom Monroe dampers) and larger roll bars. Many testers commented that they thought the car was too stiff for road use.
     
  8. allanlambo

    allanlambo F1 Rookie

    Jun 9, 2002
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    I didnt ignore the lap times, the Nsx-r is not legal in this country, so the lap times do not count. Also, according to a U.S. Sport 350 owner, the car is identical to a Euro, barring Dot standards, which would be the same for a Euro Nsx-R.

    I'll research more, and see what i come up with. But as it stands, a standard Esprit, will destroy a standard Nsx, all day long.
     
  9. netviper

    netviper Formula Junior

    Nov 2, 2003
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    Dave
    In your limited field of view, perhaps. But the rest of the world - including many automotive journalists - know differently.
     
  10. allanlambo

    allanlambo F1 Rookie

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    Just keep telling yourself that. Go back to Nsxprime, where you guys can ask yourselves one more time if" The Nsx is Exotic".
     
  11. Chiaro_Slag

    Chiaro_Slag F1 Veteran

    Oct 31, 2003
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    Hey Allan - What do you think of the Lotus Elise that is coming to the US around May? Do you think it is weak or does it have some potential?
     
  12. netviper

    netviper Formula Junior

    Nov 2, 2003
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    What is your definition of exotic?

    Lets compare:

    NSX v Lotus

    Both have limited production numbers.

    Both cost near the same.

    Both have good performance. The Lotus is faster. HP alone does not make a car exotic or a Z06 would be exotic. On a track, like i said, it would be driver decided in most cases, IMO.

    The NSX was the first car to have VTEC and titanium connecting rods. The NSX is also aluminum.

    What firsts does the lotus have? Hmm..? The Lotus had a 4 cylinder turbo and turbo V8. Nothing speical there. An EVO puts up more HP than the lotus did. I dont think the body is anything special. (could be wrong)

    The NSX has excellent build quality. The lotus? hmm..

    The NSX is reliable. The lotus..... maybe the newer V8's.

    Both can be modded to extreme levels. But I don't think modding a car has anything to do with being exotic.

    So I guess lack of quality and reliability make a car exotic. If that is the case, you can have it.
     
  13. lotustt

    lotustt Formula 3

    Aug 28, 2002
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    TRM
    In a nutshell the Elise is a great sports car. If not one of the best all around handling cars in the world. Weak, not by chance or depending on what you mean as weak? It harkens back even more so to Chapmans philosophy of lightweight design and engineering to achieve better handling and speed. A purpose built sportscar right out of the bag, with even more potential. But i still love the Esprit and hopefully we will definitly see a new rendition of one in a few years!
     
  14. Chiaro_Slag

    Chiaro_Slag F1 Veteran

    Oct 31, 2003
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    Thanks! I just saw one at the LA Auto Show & really was quite surprised by how much I liked it. The only thing I meant by weak is I think it had 190 HP - But with the low weight, I guess that is plenty.
     
  15. allanlambo

    allanlambo F1 Rookie

    Jun 9, 2002
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    Umm both have good performance? As we have already discussed, the Nsx has dismall performance. Which Evo may i ask puts out more hp than an Esprit? Have you now demeaned yourself to comparing 2004 cars to 1987 Lotus's? In that case, Hondas most exotic Civic of 1987 loses that battle for your mark of choice. You not thinking the body is anything special is one thing, but the publics reaction is quite another.

    The Nsx cannot be modded to extreme levels, unless we also have different notions of extreme. Turbocharged and nitroused cars on slicks running 10's @126 mph is not extreme.

    Heres what a Sport 350 owner has to say about your Nsx:
    I don't have any performance data but I do have an S350, if you have
    any questions you may email me directly. I can tell you that the NSX
    in no way compares to the S350. This is not bias, I have driven the
    NSX extensively and think it is a wonderful car with great balance.
    It just doesn't have the power, braking performance and chassis
    dynamics.
     
  16. allanlambo

    allanlambo F1 Rookie

    Jun 9, 2002
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    The little Elise is a cute little car, which will have great modding ability. But its not a car id be interested in. Little too girly for me. Nsx guys may want to consider one for an upgrade.
     
  17. Chiaro_Slag

    Chiaro_Slag F1 Veteran

    Oct 31, 2003
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    Yah - The thing I don't like about it is its size - Kind of like a 1986 MR2 I had in high school.
     
  18. allanlambo

    allanlambo F1 Rookie

    Jun 9, 2002
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    Hey, i had an 89 Supercharged Mr2.
     
  19. bostonmini

    bostonmini Formula 3

    Nov 8, 2003
    1,890
    Elise is really cool, looks like a mini ferrari design to me;) but, the interior is so spartan, that unless you are going to track it, why not get something with a few more creature comforts? and as for modding, possible, but the engine they chose has such a high CR, that youd need to change some internals first, and now you're talking about spending over 5K on a 38K car! cool looking tho, Id consider one i guess, if i was a track guy.
     
  20. netviper

    netviper Formula Junior

    Nov 2, 2003
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    Dave
    Here are results from a Handling test in CAR (UK magazine).

    1997 Handling Comparison
    1st Lotus Elise
    2nd Honda NSX
    3rd Ferrari F50

    At the top of the pile in 1997 are three similar cars. The Elise, NSX and F50 are all mid-engined, rear-drive, and designed to be light for their power. You'd expect them to be responsive, agile and tactile. And so they are. You might also expect them to be edgy and wilful when pressed, so that you have to be some kind of hero to enjoy them. Mercifully, they swerve neatly around those preconceptions by being progressive and wonderfially talkative at the limit. Friendly, even.

    The Elise wins, because it is so pure. Great handling - on roads as well as tracks - was the absolute number one priority for its maker, which has a noble history in the art. (We're already in Pavlovian spasms about the forthcoming Sport version: lighter glassfibre body and the same 190bhp engine as the Caterham Supersport-R). For the same effect with more power-drama, see the F50. For the same effect with power and practicality see the NSX. Few companies other than Honda would have the money, expertise and vision to engineer that compromise.

    Amazing, then, that things like a Carrera 4, Spider and Esprit GT3 get bundled unceremoniously into a 'best of the rest' file. Even the wooden-spoon car, the BMW Z3, would be called a fine roadgoing ragtop if only it hadn't had the misfortune to be born in the era of the Boxster. It's been a good year for drivers.

    Lap times around Castle Combe race track

    Place Car Lap Time (seconds)
    1 Ferrari F50 69.37
    2 Ferrari 550 Maranello 72.04
    3 Honda NSX 72.20
    4 Chrysler GTS 72.86
    5 Caterham Superlight R 73.17
    6 Nissan Skyline GT-R 73.09
    7 Lotus Esprit GT3 74.40
    8 Porsche 911 Carrera 4 74.89
    9 Jaguar XJR V8 76.20
    10 Venturi Atlantique 76.71
    11 Subaru Impreza Turbo 76.83
    12 Porsche Boxster 77.52
    13 Honda Integra-R 78.94
    14 BMW Z3 2.8 79.02
    15 Lotus Elise 79.05
    16 Peugeot 106 GTI 79.63
    17 Renault Sport Spider 79.83
    18 Ford Puma 83.15
    19 MGF VVC 85.80
    20 Ford Ka2 94.81
     
  21. Alxlee

    Alxlee F1 Rookie

    Apr 8, 2002
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    Wow, I stay away from this thread for a few days and it's blown up. Netviper, quite frankly, you are a numbers wh#@e. The majority of your "experiences" seems to be quoting magazine numbers, internet pages or quoting friends of friends that have had friends that had Esprits that were unreliable and not driving or owning various cars on the road, track etc... (And no, I have not tracked my Esprit, just the other cars.)

    As for your numbers below, you've just put a 2.0 liter four cylinder car against everything else and you're trying to use this as the basis of your argument? The GT3 Esprit was a bare bones "entry level" car with a 2.0 liter motor that put out 240 bhp and 217 ft/lbs instead of the 2.2 liter turbo, 300 bhp cars.

     
  22. netviper

    netviper Formula Junior

    Nov 2, 2003
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    I had have never heard of a GT3. That is all I found so far. So you can call me a numbers whore if you want, but how else am I going to prove a point? Real tracks, real numbers. Numbers don't lie.

    I am sure not trying to put down a Lotus. I think they are cool. I would love to drive one and form my own opinion.

    Why have you not tracked your esprit?
     
  23. allanlambo

    allanlambo F1 Rookie

    Jun 9, 2002
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    LOL! Netviper you are a tool! Great info you posted! I agree, the Esprit with 4 banger is not 10X the car of the Nsx, just 5X.
     
  24. netviper

    netviper Formula Junior

    Nov 2, 2003
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    Well Allan, find me some numbers to back up the BS you are shoveling. And we are resorting to name calling now?
     
  25. allanlambo

    allanlambo F1 Rookie

    Jun 9, 2002
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    Im sorry NetViper. For my comment, ill bring my numbers down and say the Lotus is 9X the car of the Nsx. See how easy i am?
     

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