Both are great cars imo. In terms of power delivery they vary enormously and it can be shown by examining the power under the curve at whatever revs. Power is simply a component of Torque as in Power(HP) = Torque * rpm / 5252. This means the Lusso T produces more power up to a certain revs and after that point the V12 starts to produce more. This is why the T seems faster at lower revs.. Does anyone actually know how much the pano roof actually adds taking into consideration the weight of the standard roof plus roof lining etc.? Another point is how much more economical the T is in real world.?
True. It is interesting to see how much the torque actually drops off in the T. At peak power it is down to 427 lb.ft. whereas the V12 retains 453 lb ft. That is a significant chunk considering the rom and power band. Some argue that well, one can just run the T at lower rpm and thus have more power, but in order for the T to run at the same speed at those lower rpm i,e 3500-5500 rpm, it needs to be in a higher gear. Torque multiplication matters a lot in this regard and due to this, the V12 still has the upper hand once it is up in rpm. Both engines have a pretty broad torque table, and because of this, the V12 can utilize its gearing as an advantage. Had it been a peaky engine with a very narrow torque peak, and had the power peaks close together, then it would be completely different. Some also argue that it is hard to get the V12 into its power band, but that is not true. The T has the grunt when you take off and it is more of a sedate low end pull, but if you start to push both cars, the V12 quickly takes the lead.
Having driven the Lusso V12 but not the T the only reason i can think of to get the latter would be purely economical. By this i mean if i had a strict budget which only stretched to a T or FF then i'd take the T. With a higher budget it would be a V12 Lusso every time even just because of subjective reasons such as charisma, noise, character etc. They look the same both inside and outside and both have more poke then is realistically needed in everyday driving. Still interested in the real world difference in fuel consumption between the two.
There's no denying that the V12 is pretty darn thirsty. But that being said, I also find that has something to do with how it is often driven. It is often very tempting to give that V12 a bootful. But I've actually managed to get the km/l tolerable, even for city driving and short trips - well into the 8's in fact. But it does not take much to get it into the 4-5 km/l range if you fool about a bit in those conditions. Once you're doing highway style cruising, they look to be very similar.
If you don't get the V12, then in my opinion there are better/cheaper choices with a V8 Turbo. The V12 is core to the Lusso. About less weight and handling, it's a 2 ton car, so weight saving or being nimble was never what it's designed for. If you want that, get a McLaren. Get the V12, add a Novitec exhaust
I mentioned in another post that I just bought a T. Drove both, studied both, lost seep over both... then bought the T. Proper GT cars should have a 12. A Ferrari GT MUST have a 12 if you listen to enthusiasts. I tend to agree to some extent. But depends on how you will use it. I already have a weekend Ferrari, this was going to be my daily. The T drove better. It turned better, the torque is noticeable, you can slide the rear end around, it’s significantly less expensive, way better gas mileage (better than advertised since you know you’ll be revving the 12 constantly), and for a daily driver and family car it just made more sense. Do I still want the 12? Yesssss. Was the sound an emotional experience? So much so. But it wasn’t the best car for what I wanted, so it was the T for me. There’s more to the experience than the sound. ...Did I just type that?!?! Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
Thank you for this and all the other feedback. I've been having fun, without stressing, researching and driving these cars. I was able to drive a T and V12 back to back last week and got the answer I needed..... They need to make a V12 that drives like the T!!!!!! That being said, neither car was perfect. But I enjoyed driving the T more. That and I found the exact color combo and specs in a T at the right price. The only one in a V12 I could find that I liked wad about $50-60k more. So the decision seems to fit. I'll post some pics after all is done. And as I'm rebuilding our garage next year...it will make room to just buy another V12 then. Thanks again,
Interesting that you came to the same post test drive conclusion as me. Anyway, as said above, welcome to the Lusso family. I am writing this from my Lusso. A medical appointment has necessitated a visit to London Actually enjoying cruising around the nicer parts of town. A Lusso is always a nice place to be Image Unavailable, Please Login Sent from my SM-G781B using FerrariChat.com mobile app
Hello Anthony47. They were both great to drive for different reasons. The V12 sounds better, but honestly didn't have that ultimate v12 sound I've heard elsewhere. I'm not knocking it, but it wasn't enough to turn me....although better than the T. As for the rides, the T felt much more agile in comparison. Point the car this way, it went straight at it. Hard turns felt like it was going quickly where i wanted it. The 12 felt heavier, and when you turned it...the car had to "come around" a bit. A little more "boaty" if that makes sense. Don't get me wrong, for the size and weight, it's still great. The T just felt like it was excited every time I turned the wheel.
I own both Lusso T and 812 , I find myself more and more in T as it’s so easy to drive around town..somehow you don’t think much in T and it’s more relaxing less adrenaline ..If you want v 12 sound abs thrills of course it’s another story but I feel everyday won’t be good for health and well being haha T really really nice for everyday it’s an upgrade for me from a V6 Panamera which had lags when push the throttle in higher gear but with T Ferrari really did well it’s super responsive throttle and also handling super agile just need to be extra careful it’s no Porsche or Mercedes , Ferrari super playful have to be alert even with T All the best Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
Hi, realize this is a a pretty old thread, but am considering my first F-car and really actually like the 4-seat concept of the FF/Lusso, plus they are slightly less flashy which I like. In December I had a deal with an FF fall through, but right now have a deal for a 2018 V12 Lusso with around 30k miles from a Ferrari dealer. Around 225k out the door with taxes, and a 2-year Power15 warranty. The Lusso is pretty high-spec'ed with an MSRP around 425k, surprisingly no axle lift in that set of items. I really wanted the panoramic roof, which it has. Brand new Michelin tires, a set of winters, full xpel, next service not due till Dec 2021, etc. The dealer was really awesome to work with. Sadly, I didn't really love the car when I drove it. I am not sure how much of that was because the battery was low, so we couldn't get out of any mode other than "wet" - I got to do a mix of city and highway driving. The car is certainly fast, and the gearing is very long. But what was missing for me was the real emotionality... it just felt like it would be there, but would take work to experience. The car was extraordinarily comfortable on the road, and sounds pretty good (realize that an aftermarket exhaust can make that even more so). But I was a little sad to not "want" the car after the drive. Posting here to see if I'm just missing something and once you're in it and have driven the car for a while, if it grows on you in a different way. Also wondering how much of a difference the low battery experience was. Net - academically this seems like a great offer on a great 1-owner car from a dealership. But the heart has yet to be sold, sadly! I didn't want that to be the case. Any feedback before I decide not to go forward? I had driven an F430 years ago and its appeal was immediate and truly special at all rev ranges.
At $225k I'd want to be head over heels for the car. It's unfortunate that you drove it in wet mode, because it keeps the shifts at 2 or 3k RPM and you don't get close to the sweet spot of the motor. The V12 is a high-revving engine. I've always been more of a low-end torque kind of guy and my 430 checks that box. The Lusso I love because it allows me to take more of my family and it still goes like stink. But the torque (and that sweet V12 noise) only kick in above 5k RPM. If it was my only sports car I probably would have gone for a Lusso T because it has more useable power at lower revs. But V12 was on my bucket list. Prices appear to have gone up over the past 6 months. My 2018 Lusso had 7700 miles at delivery and I purchased in December from a Ferrari dealership with the 2-yr power warranty for about $10k less. Comparable original MSRP. Find your right car. Especially for your first Ferrari.
Thanks for the advice.... yes, my feeling was the same on the V12, I really wanted that in a GT car, especially given how iconic those engines are. Helpful advice on wet mode. I was also a little surprised at the quality of the interior. The steering wheel and the vents and the panoramic roof make it a special place to be, but the feeling and smell of the leather is not as exotic/supple as even my current F10 M5. So - I'll keep looking around, perhaps take a spin in an F12 and see if I feel a major difference. Of course I really did love the idea of taking the family with / practicality, and 4WD - I owned a 911 turbo for 10 years and used it in the snow, rain, etc - was looking forward to that with the Lusso also. Roughly in the same price range as this car would be a 2018 GT3 or McLaren 675LT, both of which seem generally acknowledged as vehicles that really ignite the senses in a special way. Last FYI, my out the door price included 20k in sales tax, not sure if you're also in CA/NY/WA or one of these 10% tax states. Really appreciate the guidance, again.
Did you get a chance to drive the FF before the deal fell through? If not, perhaps you should take a drive in one. There are forum members who have chosen to buy an FF over a Lusso because the FF felt more ‘sporty’, ‘raw’ or ‘exciting’. We know that one of Ferrari’s objectives was to make the Lusso more refined and capable than the FF. There’s a possibility that the FF may deliver what you felt was missing in the Lusso. The leather quality is higher in the FF than in the Lusso (see BrianL’s very in depth comparison of the two). If you find one with the semi-aniline option, it will be streets ahead of any BMW. Good luck!
If both cars are fitted with the standard leather, it is the exact same leather. If both cars are fitted with semi-aniline leather, it is also the same. If we are discussing actual build quality, the Lusso has the better interior. Much less rattles and squeaks. Less things tend to break. Better sound insulation from road noise and wind noise. This is especially true for the backseat. The FF rear seat is a very noisy place to be compared to a Lusso. I do remember Brian L's rants. Not sure I can define those reviews like anything other than a very biased opinion, from someone a bit upset that something newer, and potentially better came along. Especially his rantings about how the FF was a near perfect design, with the Lusso being an utter failure. Ridiculous. The FF is a great car, and a bit different than the Lusso. Sent from my SM-G930F using FerrariChat.com mobile app
Unfortunately, BrianL lost a fair bit of credibility with the rants which escalated the more his opinions were dismissed by other board members. It became a vicious circle in the end. I did, however, pay heed toward his observations about the leather as it is his business and he has spent a lifetime in the leather trade.
His opinion was also based solely on the observation of a pre-series demo car. Many things he noted were not present on the final production vehicles (like the very flimsy horse).
Brian is not in the leather industry. He is in the music business as a Mastering Tech. His opinion about the leather was nothing more than his opinion. But as you know, I have plenty of experience with both cars and speccing cars in Maranello. No changes was ever made to the Lusso leather compared to the FF. It is the same as was found in the 458, Cali, Cali T, 488, etc. etc. etc. It still is the same. Brian's downfall came after he was completely unable to consider other peoples opinion, and continued to insult and degrade other members. His level of arrogance was astonishing.
Don't mean to thread hi-jack, but is Poltrona Frau still the main leather supplier for the semi-aniline?
