Skipp, No disrespect is meant by this answer, but it was my experience. When I first started looking at buying a Dino in the late 90's, all cars were either drivers with issues or a "perfect" Dino. The world was different back then. After looking at quite a few "perfect" cars, I realized most were just freshly repainted, and all looked like they had been messed with. I quickly grew disillusioned. Yes, it was an old car, but what we see today from the likes of OMGJON wasn't around back then. I quickly decided I wouldn't buy a fresh repaint car, and I never did. I would rather have old paint with issues than some hidden cover up job. Of the Dino's I bought, the most recent repainted one was back in 1989. I have sense had OMGJON redo a Dino, and it was shocking what it hid. These were not loved cars back in the day like you would think. An older repaint won't hide stuff like a new repaint will conceal. The question comes down to what you want the car for. If you want a truly unmessed with car, this fits the bill. If you want a cool driver, this fits the bill. If you want a show car at a cheap price, this isn't it. Only you can answer this. Rust is a given on a Dino. Unless the car is completely broken down, and only recently has this come to light because of what OMGJON did by posting stuff about this, Dino's are rusty ordeals. If you don't subject the car to rust prone situations, you can ward off the issue. There is a reason Dino's cost what they do. I know we have all had a huge arguement about the market falling, and at some point it may, but I haven't seen a huge exit towards the door. There are currently two ads on F-Chat looking to buy a Dino, but only if the price is low. If the knife was falling, those ads would see all kinds of responses, but yet they don't. My best advice, is to find a car and have a PPI and figure out what you can live with. Also, with respect to Mike Sheehan, I think he is being given an unfair shake in this thread. I have no financial interest in any of his current offerings, nor do I have anything working in the future. Having said that, I have bought cars from him and always found him fair handed. He has inquired about buying a car or two from me. He has always been honest and forthcoming. Simple fact is he is a broker, he gets paid to sell the car. As anyone who acts as such, creating a false high for a seller, makes guys mad, creating a false low price for a buyer creates situations where everyone gets mad. In this position, he has to be even keeled, and find a place both minds can meet and leave enough for his efforts. I think Sheehan has done a VERY reasonable job of this and his years in the business have proved this. There has never been a time I called him and he didn't answer the phone or return my call in a reasonable time frame. I haven't hought a car from him in over ten years, but he has always been available to talk. To say he is manipulating the market of anything is simply not my experience. And for what it is worth, all cars I bought from Sheehan, I bought without personally seeing. I can not say he didn't fairly represent the cars (with one very, very, very minor exception, but it isn't a deal ender and he was given bad info, regardless, I was happy). With my experience with Sheehan, I felt like me remaining quiet would be dishonest and not appropriate. Shawn
In this day and age, is there still such a thing a fatal rust? Honest question. I've had a very well known Ferrari mechanic tell me that one of their clients drives his vintage Ferrari's (all multi-million dollar cars) super hard, "damages" them all a bit through hard use and has even crashed one badly. His attitude is that he can pay 1 million to rebuild them and still be way ahead. Isn't any rust issue these days really just a money issue? A totaled car seems more fatal than rust, but maybe I'm wrong
When we repainted my '74 GTS we found virtually no rust in the visible areas. The car had been in California originally and then Colorado for a good time and then on to Ed Waterman in Florida. There was factory undercoating on the wheel wells but beyond that rust prevention was nonexistent on the Dino. Pretty sure there would be factory surface rust in some hidden areas but I think you would have to keep the car in pretty damp conditions for this surface rust to grow. There are also treatments for these hidden areas such as Waxoyl that should keep rust in check if you are truly worried about it.
Skip, By now you have all the information in the world to buy a Dino. Not trying to be funny, but there is only one kind of rust, it is brown and eats through anything that is related to iron or steel. There really is nothing much more to tell you, and thankfully, you never got in too deep about mechanicals. Now, go and buy one. Regards, Alberto
Skipp, Because you are new, you most likely haven't seen these pictures before (I am not sure you owns the copyright) but they show raw bodies sitting outside Scaglietti waiting to be put into production. The Dino's had no rust inhibitor applied before sitting and were not treated prior to paint either, hence the nature of the problems. If a Dino is properly cared for and not exposed to conditions that make the problems worse, you should be fine and can make minor corrections to the affected areas, as long as modern paint could allow you to do so. Shawn Image Unavailable, Please Login
Shawn, Did/do Daytona's have the same rust issues? I have heard metal quality was the primary issue with Dino's and rust, but never heard that about Daytona's...but neither are my metier.
I have seen this photo before, but I'm not sure it is worrisome. During some seasons in Italy it is hot as hell in the daytime, and if it's like CA, at no time does any dew or moisture form on anything at night. So it's not like they were allowed to sit in the rain and fill with water before they were finished. Jim
I've heard that they used cheap low carbon Russian steel. Could this be one of the reasons the welds look so bad? Freeman
This ^^^^ The same old saying holds true for 246's as it does for any car, "Buy the best you can afford."
Thanks for sharing the photos. I had not seen them. Buy the best you can afford rings true. If a Dino lived in California for most of its life, would the odds be in your favor that you wouldn't have much of a rust issue ? Assuming it was well cared for.
You still need to look at it. A car that got parked on PCH every night or spent it's life two blocks from the beach in Santa Cruz is likely to have rust.
News flash...it actually does rain in California, specifically ~Oct thru ~May which is the rainy season. So if a Dino lived its life in California, sitting outside during that period could result in rust forming just as it could in any other part of the country (or world). When I bought my 71 Dino in 2010, I was told in no uncertain terms to NEVER wash the car with a hose because that would result in water making its way to the bottom of the doors where there are no drain holes. Although I only clean my Dino with waterless car wash, pretty sure that stuff didn't exist during the first 30+ years of its life.
Based on my experience, most one-offs or limited/small production "coach built" (vintage) vehicles, be it Daytona, Dino or R-R Phantom series (I-VI) utilized methods and techniques in their body/chassis construction not practical (=cost effective) in large scale vehicle productions or vice versa. While chassis & coach building of Daytona, Dino and similar cars were mainly focused on performance and styling and Phantoms on ultimate luxury accompanied by superb fit & finish, none of them seem to have been given much consideration regarding extended durability or longevity. Not only these days, but along with any major reconstructive restoration effort involving vintage cars, rust has always been and will be "a money issue" but perhaps more so to those who look at vintage cars from financial (investment), rather than enthusiasts perspective. Not many are able or willing to spend XXX or more if needed on a car they purchased for XX to make its quality on par with the best examples worth somewhere between XXX-XXXX, so obviously cost/corner cutting becomes an issue on many (most?) vintage cars/projects regardless of make or model. I'm sure I'm far from only restorer having experienced commissions in which even initial rough estimates far exceeded the cost of buying the best example in the world at the time. On couple occasions even, when eventually sold, these seemingly cost-prohibitive project at the time proved to be valued above their initial acquisition and final restoration costs. I'm referring to production cars valued below $500K, for which no restoration expenses were spared and are more complex to restore than Daytona or Dino. One even changed ownership more than once during the extended process due to unexpected financial and other changes in clients lives (bankruptcy, divorce, health, etc). P.S. Having experienced some fabrication & welding with Soviet era steel, if actually used on Daytona/Dino era Ferrari construction, I don't think it would be a considerable contributor for some of the questionable welds found on them. There appear to three variations of welding quality on them, the actual frame MIG welded to reasonably high quality, the body/sheet metal support structure (what I call "the space frame") MIG welded to at times comical(?) results by seemingly different personnel than the frame welders and then the sheet metal (body/coach-work) assembly/forming welds were done with oxy-acetylene (=gas) to very nice results. Although I wasn't around or near Maranello when Daytonas, Dinos or other early Ferraris were made, it seems (at least to me) that at the time MIG welding might have not been that well experienced by personnel tasked with the "space frame" assembly.
Yes, absolutely! I meant even a car GARAGED near the ocean could have rust issues. Salt air is insidious. Wouldn't stop me from buying a Dino though! Only my bloody bank account is doing that! California is getting a good amount of rain this year, thank God!
Thanks for your response. Not trying to jack the OP's thread but it seemed relevant to the rust discussion. I recently had the suspension arms on my Mondial de-rusted and recoated, along with some other rust removal. My shop is going to coat the undercarriage with Waxoyl as well. But even on my poor mans Ferrari, fixing the rust issues adds up quickly. I suppose things like that cost the same on a Mondial as they do for a Dino or a Daytona.
All Dino are rusty. Period. Some more, some less. There is no such thing as more or less rust. If at birth, the cars were kept outdoors without protection, paint, anything, or subsequently washed or rained upon, THEY ALL HAVE RUST. Skip, it appears you only want to hear what is convenient to you, and will make you sleep tight at night. My recommendation, buy a DeLorean, and even then............................................... Regards, Alberto
Ron, there are drain holes, in the wrong location, but that, is not the problem. When you wash these cars you tape all the openings, but even then, why all this S&M? What will you do if you are suddenly caught in an unpredictable California downpour? Regards, Alberto
Freeman, try this, put one of your best S.Steel knives in water for a week, just for fun Regards and HNY! Alberto
I always assumed that was the Ferrari factory in the background. Is it actually the Scaglietti works?
