Loctite on Stub Axle splines?

It certainly sounds like the Loctite 609 bearing retaining compound to me.

Sounds like an over-cautious ex owner was responsible.

If the there is no issue with the splines, then dont worry about it. We have a guy at work that LOVES the stuff and puts it all over splines and shafts etc.etc.

He said using it prevents any issues, but I think he is just being over-cautious.

 

I'm not sure where you are talking about. There is supposed to be sealant on the differential output splines to keep the gear lube in. Is this what you mean?

 

Ah, I understand. I, fortunately, have not yet been in there.

 

That is BECAUSE someone knowing what they were doing, took the time to do it correctly in the past.

 

I have serviced quite a few rear stub axles and I am quite certain that many of them had never been apart before. My recollection is that they ALL had loctite on the splines. I think it is a good idea on straight splines with no taper. It is good insurance against the parts "working" against each other. I can't see any harm in the practice.

 

Loctite 242 on the splines will exclude any water and will take up all the minute clearances. The 242 will also allow it to be disassembled with minimal effort at a later date.

Nothing overkill about this technique, this is sound practice.

 

yeah but there is a big difference between 242 and the green "680" which is what was in there. I can also say I've seen weird things happen when you lock all those parts together with 680 and stop any relative movement happen from growing and shrinking during heat ... the assembly "sticks" in the grown position ... I would use 242 but no way green.

cheers.

edit: But I am really glad to hear loctite on splines is a pro thing ... as an engineer I view that as a band aid ... if I want to keep water out I'd use sealant ... always appreicate the input Mr. H.

 

The thing that I saw happen when I loctited the flange on was the following:

The flange, inner bearing, and nut were all "loctited" together. Then, when the axle grew when it was hot, because the inner bearing and flange was "stuck" on the axle, the nut was no longer pulling the axle thru the upright creating any pre-load on the outer bearing. Eventually I could rock the wheel like there was a loose wheel bearing which made me think the nut had come loose or a bearing had failed ... it was none of those. Because there was no preload the spacer was therefore loose and I had to reface the ends of that nice and square.

I was due for a magnaflux of the stub axles so didn't mind taking them apart for inspection ... I was just really surprised that the nut was tight and the flange needed pressing off ... slop I was feeling was all due to absolutely no preload on the outer bearing ... the nut hadn't moved and neither had flange.

I also assemble these things on my lathe which makes it easy to get the 200+ ft-lb tq on the nut. I had about 25,000 miles on the assembly when I noticed the movement. No movement now and it's been a few months.

 

You'll find loctite in the transfer case, as used on the output shaft from the factory...

 

I guess every gearbox I've taken apart must of been apart before.

Thanks for mentioning it ... on one box the gear cluster for 4-5 had rocked back and forth on the spline ... perfect place for 680 LOL ... personally I like to avoid using the stuff if possible so I can just slide everything apart ... but understood when you're putting it together for a customer hopefully "forever".

cheers

 

Green Loctite can be either 680 Bearing Retainer type of 290 Wicking Type. Actually even the 242 Medium strength looks a yellowish green with age and heat. There is no sense in using either the 680 or the 290 for this application but in my opinion either is better than nothing. Based on there not being stories of a 10 pound hand maul, a dozen pullers and a big Rose Bud being required to disassemble the corner.... I rather doubt that 680 is what was used the last time.

Fine splines subjected to reversing rotational forces get loctited only on final assembly at my shop. The exception is when a Hewland is being built where it is expected to come apart for 3 gear changes over the next weekend. When a customers street car is put together, it damn well better not be coming apart in the next decade or two!

 

The output shaft nut is loose...and the splines look like this.
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aaah ... that's the clutch shaft. I used loctite on that the first time I put one together ... I have a junk one out of a spare motor that suffered that failure.

The reason I don't anymore is because I have a quick change set of those gears and wanted to build my confidence in being able to swap those without needing a torch and a puller. It is something I monitor. I am very curious if any of you pros have seen this come loose after you personally assembled and properly tq'd without loctite (no reason to experiment on other people's cars but it would be neat to hear "I didn't loctite that 20 years ago and then one day a customer came back after 10k miles and it was loose after I personally tq'd it so from then on ... loctite"). Every time I torque up these nuts, the gearbox nuts, or the axle flange nuts, I "speculate" in my mind the failures are most likely due to the nuts not being properly tq'd. This is only because I am not personally seeing these failures and I am trying to accelerate them if they are a truly areas of concern. I would say the 25k I put on my car was easily 100k of a typical 308's life.

Question about the gearbox spline on the 4-5 cluster ... I wanted to be able to disassemble everything "in the car" worst case and I have had 5 boxes apart none of which had loctite on that spline ... fastradio is this the part you're referring to as having loctite on the splines or did you mean the clutch shaft in the pic?

I loctited the flange we're talking about years ago and saw that weird clearance develop ... the observed clearance was an interesting observation especially since the nut was still tight, green loctited, and staked. I think if I wouldn't have loctited that assembly the nut would've been loose which is not good either. I just re-did that side a couple weeks ago and I was thinking "I wonder if this is something that just needs re-tq because of the various loads stretching and releasing the shaft". As I mentioned I've been magnafluxing these parts looking for the infamous failure and I have been lucky so far. Not using loctite makes dissasembly easier for this reason too.

I had another upright out of a high mileage car that I was checking out ... there was grease all over that shaft when I took it apart. When I pulled apart the one that I loctited a little moisture had still got inside and started corroding the shaft a bit so I liked the grease idea since I'd seen that on the Porsche torsion bars which get greased to prevent corrosion. Also the outer bearing stayed in the housing when I pressed it out making inspection of the critical area of the shaft much easier. When the bearing stays stuck on the shaft it can be hard to get it off (especially if green loctite was used) without messing up the seperate dust shield on the outside which is more expensive than the bearing . Any thoughts about corrosion prevention on these parts?

Thanks for sharing!

cheers,

Sean

 

yep no stories from OP requiring a torch but in the 308 section he asked about this and described the material as being "green and hard like plastic" and I described this as "the oldest band aid in the book" ... I was talking about 680 specifically ... I think that stuff is a bit aggressive for anything that one plans to disassemble eventually but I used it in this area years ago because of paranoia about the nuts coming loose and wasting the shaft. I have seen the stuff hold together parts that had beat them self to death which should not have been put back together which is why I call it a band aid ... it's also used on nakered shafts to lock the inner bearing race in place which is really why I got the feeling it is more of a "repair" compound not something to be used for a properly engineered fit.

cheers

 

This is a really old post but just in case anyone is still reading, Ferrari uses AREXONS SYSTEM 56A01 which is like loctite on the splines. I cant say for the 308 but definitely for this 458.



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They started doing this on newer cars, but on older 3*8 and the like, there was nothing from the factory. On 458s I have had to remove the complete upright assembly and put it in a press to get the spline shaft out.

 

so which locitite is the equivalent to the ferrari recommended :AREXONS SYSTEM 56A01

 

also its a bit strange because even arexons says its suitable for braking parts to enable a slide fit instead of an interference fit and is recommended for braking parts not subject to dismantling. I would have thought that you would need to be able to dismantle the sub axles (im about to take the rear hub carrier off which is why im looking into this and the service manual does indeed recommend it)

 

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I just got my hub off today. A 10 ton pulley puller and a Mapp torch providing heat finally broke it free. Arexons isn’t widely available in the US so would love to know the Loctite equivalent.



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Damn that thing is well on there! Ill have to get a gear puller ordered for doing mine.