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LIon Air 737 Max 8 Crash in Indonesia

Discussion in 'AviatorChat.com' started by Jacob Potts, Oct 29, 2018.

  1. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    The air data system feeds inputs to a lot of systems, including the engines. Hopefully the heavily damaged black boxes can provide good info on what really happened. You would think with a 737, though, that the pilots should have had enough information to fly the aircraft safely, regardless of what was wrong. Cannot even have a hard over rudder any more.
     
  2. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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    Yes, I thought about the rudder thing but that has been fixed. But a competent pilot , I think, would maintain smoother control of the airplane when he has lost inputs and try to work the problem. The wild excursions in speed and altitude don't make sense...but nowadays a lot of things don't make sense to me.
     
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  3. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    This accident kind of reminds me of the 757 that went down with a foreign carrier when something similar seemed to happen. Aircraft flown out of control with primary instrument problems, even though it had fully functional back-up instruments.
     
  4. JLF

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    You and me both.
     
  5. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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    An educated guess by a high timer friend. Intermittent interruptions between computers and basic instruments and poor basic flying skills.
     
  6. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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    The comment should have been, " poor basic hand flying skills".
     
  7. tritone

    tritone F1 Rookie
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    Non-pilot here.....but this has to be perhaps the most important piece of info in the investigation ..... apparently it happened before ...... what were the details there? And they did not find anything wrong?
    BTW: was this the same aircrew as on the earlier flight?
     
  8. Steve355F1

    Steve355F1 F1 Veteran
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    I’d agree with that.

    Everything else at this stage is more like cheerleading for your favourite aircraft manufacturer.
     
  9. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

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    The spoilers are fly by wire on the Max family, but yeah the rest is old fashion.
     
  10. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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    The fly by wire spoilers are a departure from the 777 if my memory serves me. I have mentioned it before when the powers above mandated that the 777 would have direct cable controls to the outboard spoilers and stab trim. It was almost 30 years ago when I was in 777 PD but I think that I'm still correct. I never did work on the 737 and only a little bit on the 757 but everything else was on the even numbered models after the 707. I just hope that they figure this thing out soon.
     
  11. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

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    It was done to reduce weight and improve stopping distance.

    http://www.b737.org.uk/max-spoilers.htm
     
  12. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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  13. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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    Another input from a reliable flyer friend. " Three clicks would have put the airplane in a hands-on flying mode. A/P, Auto throttle, and F/D." Then hopefully the crew would know how to fly the airplane.
     
  14. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

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    Cockpit voice recorder black box signal has been lost. At least they recovered the flight data recorder last Thursday.
     
  15. Mckinney

    Mckinney Karting

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    If it was a cockpit struggle, suicide, etc. will that be discernible from the flight data recorder alone?
     
  16. Gatorrari

    Gatorrari F1 World Champ
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    Could that be because of an intentional act?
     
  17. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

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    It would look very bad if they tried covering that up and it eventually came to light. The CVR certainly could answer that question. The last pings from it were yesterday so it's been a day now with nothing. Too bad metal detectors can't really tell accident debris from the CVR even if they know the area like in this case...
     
  18. Bob Parks

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    NBC News this morning says that the" airspeed indicators" were not working properly and caused problems on the previous flight. Already reading from the flight recorder.
     
  19. Fave

    Fave F1 Rookie
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    I know it's more difficult than asked, but why aren't the flight and cockpit recorders uploading in real time?

    I'm pretty sure data is being sent to Rolls Royce for the engines like this.

    The boxes should be used as backup incase something in the uploading fails. I'm sure it's been thought about.
     
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  20. INRange

    INRange F1 Rookie
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    Of the two boxes to recover....I'll speculate the Flight Data Recorder probably tells the story best especially if the crew was struggling with flying the plane.

    I'm just haunted by the Air France flight 447 and Asiana flight 214.....both crashes the result of survivable malfunctions which the flight crews made deadly.
     
  21. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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    I have been told that the CVR's are routinely shut off and/or erased by the flight crews.
     
  22. beast

    beast F1 Veteran

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    Avherald is reporting that the FDR initial readout shows that the Airspeed was unreliable for the 3 flights prior to the accident flight

    http://avherald.com/h?article=4bf90724&opt=0
     
  23. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

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    Makes sense although it could help rule out foul play like hijacking (not just suicidal pilots). That could explain the erratic flight path, but wouldn't explain previous flight airspeed readout discrepancies.
     
  24. JLF

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    Heh, no not in the US anyway. Been doing this 20 years at four airlines, have never seen anyone do that or even heard of anyone doing that.
    It probably happens but it’s certainly not common or routine.
     
  25. JLF

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    A lot of flight data is sent in real time to the company through ACARS.
    I know engine data is and they can even tell if our approach was unstable because the plane will tell on you.
    Don’t know if it’s by choice or if all airlines do it but the ACARS system on the newer jets can.
     

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