Lift: 2 or 4 column?

If you are primairly using it for parking go with the 4 post. It is quicker and still be used for servicing.

 

a 4 post is much better for home use as you can use it for storage and service whereas a 2 post can be used for service only...

 

4 post is far better for stacking and occassional working, and they will actually stand wo bolting into floor if your concrete is weak or thin, buy a 220 volt works, a 110 is too slow, most require some air to release the locks, they arrive in a very heavy package (1500 lbs or more) so you will need to work out the unloading and assembly requires at least 3 big guys

 

My brother has a shop with two lifts in it. Both lifts are two post lifts and he parks cars under them all the time. I don't see a problem with parking a car under a two post lift. The down side is that the top of the lift has to be anchored to something (ceiling) to keep it from swaying or falling. Also you have to watch the balance of the car you're putting on the lift. After a while it's second nature. He mostly deals with small British cars so no problem. The problem I have with four post lifts is that the car is supported by the wheels so it's harder to do things like brake jobs because you still have to get the wheels in the air in order to remove them. At least that's true with the four post lifts I've seen. I vote for a two post lift.

Bob Wassam

 

Think about the service operations you are going to do; cv boots, clutch, timing belts, brakes, wheel bearings, suspension bushings, sway bar bushings, coolant hoses,alternator and ac belts - all of this stuff is done through the wheel wells, with the tires off.

To me, the ease of driving on and off is massively overwhelmed by the huge inconvenince of trying to work around the 4 post set up.

If you just want to park a couuple of cars, the 4 post is your best bet, but if you want to really work on the car, other than just oil changes, the two post is the way to go.

I worked in three automotive repiar shops over 15 years and absolutely nobody uses a 4 poster except the muffler guys.

best,
chris

 

I have always heard that you should never store a car on a 2-post for extended periods of time, it will mess up the suspension eventually by stretching all the parts, like rubber driveshaft boots and bushings. Don't know how true that is but it what I have heard over and over again.

Most people seem to prefer 2-posts for working on the car but how often are you going to take apart your car for a brake job ? I would hope that you would do it correctly the first time and not need to do it again for a very long time. I got a 4-post and never looked back, I love it, easily take all 4-wheels off for the occasional job.
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If you've got a 3x8 or Mondial, then you'll need a 2 post lift to do a major service, & most other engine/clutch related work as most of the work is done thru one or both of the rear wheel wells with the wheels off & the wheel well liner removed. I guess you might be able to finagle ways of getting the rear wheel(s) off & supporting the car on a 4 post lift, but access to everything is going to be a PITA.

I've got a 308, it spends a lot of time (most of salt season) up on my 2 post Nussbaum lift, has been doing so since I got it in '00. I have NOT seen any sign of problems due to the suspension hanging. Birdman has been doing the same with his 308 for 4 or so years.

Think about shocks being stored with coil-overs already on them. Same thing, the wheels/brakes/hub don't add significant force compared to the springs. However, a lot of suspensions already limit the shock travel so they can't fully extend.

However, if you're really concerned, install 'shock limit straps' (sometimes called 'spring limit straps') that are slightly (3/4" to 1" shorter than your suspension's full travel. Shock limit straps are steel cables or strong nylon web straps that go between the upper & lower shock mounting bolts & keep the suspension from quite reaching full downward travel. They're available from performance shops, the off-road & dirt track racers use them to keep the suspension from hammering the shock's max limit with sudden unweighting.

Modern 2 post lifts DO NOT have to be anchored at the top. My Nussbaum was built around '90 & it doesn't require top anchoring. In fact, I've never seen or heard of a 2 post that required top anchoring.

They do require a strong concrete floor tho. When I was having mine installed, the riggers weren't worried. They said that any garage floor that meets the building codes in New England has to be a lot stronger than the lift requires. Seems the strength is requred to withstand frost heaving.

We won't talk about why I had to build a box to enclose something in an upstairs closet, but it wasn't for anchoring.


BTW, Used ADVANCED search to search the text of posts in TECH Q&A for 'lifts', 'two post', 'four post', etc. There are half a dozen threads on them, several are quite long. Also 3 or 4 threads in the 'old fchat'. Even if you're going with a 4 post lift, you should read them as a couple have some serious 4-post installation & lift failure horror stories.

 

The elastic suspension bushings, both on the control arms, as well as the sway bars, are meant to be tightened with the car sitting normally with the suspension compressed. If you put the car up and hang the suspension, you will tear/distort the bushings. Also, in the hung position the shocks are resting hard on the internal bump stops. I dont know what that would do long term to the shocks, but I guess if you have poly suspension bushings the only question regarding a two post is the shocks. But I also kind of wonder about the axle boots being stretched all the time.

While the Mondial, 348, 355 etc., have engines that come out below, the 3X8 cars engines come out the top. A four post wont really be in the way. In addition, a four post makes aligning the car possible, which cant be even thought of with a two post. Then for storage, the four posts have those nice drip trays so ol Betsy dont drip all over the other cars. The four post would be my first and only choice if I could only have one hoist. Two posts are really just for working on cars, not storing them.

That last pic shows that Dino up on scissors jacks? Scissors jacks??? Get some jack stands under that thing before someone gets killed.

 

I know people do it anyway but most 2 post lifts tell you right off in the manual that they are not to be used for storage. Also every time you want to move the car on or off the lift you will have to crawl around on the ground to move the arms. If you are worried about taking the wheels off etc, an extra $500 gets you a pnuematic scissor jack the rides in a trolly so it can be used on either end of the car. Most 2 post lifts also have 12 foot high columns. I've never seen a 2 post anchored to the ceiling either as someone mentioned. For storage and ease of use you can't beat the 4 post. My favorite four post is the Bend Pak. Very well USA made unit at a decent price. I've seen them around $2600 on the net. I've seen cheaper ones and they work but the quality is not there. The two post can give you fits if your floor is not flat. The arms have to be set high to move over any changes in the surface which makes it that much harder to set up low ground clearance cars.

If you haven't poured the slab for the floor yet there are some very nice flush mount systems available as well but they too are not good for storage but dissapear when they are all the way down.

 

You can do everything with a 4 poster...for the occassional need to lift the wheels, you just use jack stands on the ramps... if you store your car on a 2 poster you will end of destroying your suspension system in short order...months not years...I bolted my 4 poster to the floor out of an abundance of precaution-safety...and I see no advantage not to bolt it down anyway...would you really need to move it once properly installed anyway?

 

I recommend you consider a 4 post lift.
As others have pointed out you should not store your car on a 2 post lift.....it is very detrimental to the suspension.
Years ago people believed that you should store your car by jacking up the frame but this has since been proven false (15 years ago) and is no longer practiced.
As for service? I have changed brakes, cv boots, all fluids, re&re exhaust, ect, ect on a 4 post lift. You just use scissor jacks to raise the car and use jack stands.
What can't you do on a 4 post lift? Well some would say the timing belt service with engine out. A friend of mine did his 355 engine out on a 4 post lift by simply driving his car on the hoist....raising the car about a foot on the hoist, then backing (pushing) the car onto specially designed ramps (made out of steel which are also a foot high) ....then put the car on 4 jack stands (on the hoist ramps between the 4 posts) , removed the temp steel ramps and then put the engine stand under the motor, unbolted the motor and then used the hoist to raise the car a foot or so and wheeled his motor out. What most people forget is that once you remove your motor/trans/susp assembly ALL THE WEIGHT of the car (in a 355) is now between the 4 posts and can be safely raised. What is hanging out the back is just some light body panels.
The hoist was rated at 7000 Ibs and the car less drivetrain probably weighed 2200 Ibs....so there is no problem lifting whats left of the car at this point.
So again, a 4 poster can be used for both storage and service.

 

Hans- I just went with a four column, sorry for the crappy cell phone pic, but it gives you some idea how it fits in a tight space. I considered both, but storage was my overall goal and I also wanted to use the lift on a daily basis without condensation, fluids, etc. dripping on the car below. You're lucky you have the high ceiling, I had to vault mine.
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I've had both kinds of lifts and I work on cars.

If you primarily want to park on the lift (easy on/off) or do fluid changes get a 4-post.

For any serious work I'm with Verell, a 2-post lift is a lot better, generally less expensive to buy and takes up less space in the shop.

It is true that suspension bushings are meant to be tightened with weight resting on the wheels however I have never seen any evidence that there are any detrimental effects from suspending most cars from chassis lifting points. Assuming that things like rack boots and bushings are in good shape they shouldn't be damaged from normal suspension travel.

Working on a ramp-style lift has one big advantage. A big place to spread out your tools and parts that is near the car.

Otherwise, my experience has been that it's frequently in the way.

 

This is a bit of a gross generalization and exaggeration. (But this is like debating the time to replace a timing belt. Everyone has an opinion and nobody will be swayed by anyone else's opinion.) Artvonne is absolutely right that OEM rubber suspension bushings don't like to be stored with the suspension hanging. However, if you have poly bushings, there is nothing wrong with it. It won't hurt the shocks. If they can take the pounding of driving on a bumpy road (where they repeatedly hit their maximum extension hard) they can take sitting on those stops for a couple months in the winter. If the dropping suspension hurts the CV boots, they are old and will need replacing anyway as soon as they start turning. The amount they flex over and over as they turn requires far more elasticity than they require to stay drooping a bit for the winter! Think about the pounding your suspension takes when you drive. Sitting on a lift is not exactly a strain on it. Also, it's good for your springs...they get a little break for a couple months without being squished by the weight of your car.

However, I would agree with everyone that a 4 post lift is better for storage. It's a lot more convenient for one (just drive the car on there!) and you can add drip trays easily. However, if you intend to work on your car, especially a Ferrari 3x8 or Mondial where so much of the service is through the wheel wells, a 2 post lift makes a lot more sense. Here's my take:

A 4 post lift is primarily for storage, but you can use it for service too.
A 2 post lift is primarily for service, but you can use it for limited storage.

If I had permission from my wife, I would have a 2 post in one bay and a 4 in the other. As it is, I have a 2.

My article on the subject:
http://www.ferrarichat.com/velostrada/issues/200510/Bird_Lifts.htm


Birdman

 

I have a 110 v setup and it works just fine, I don't know what you mean by too slow, it goes up fast enough, it will lift my car a heavy T-bird from the floor to the raised position in about 30 seconds. It lifts the Ferrari at the same speed. If I was going to buy another it would be a 110 v again, the dealer recommended a 110 v for home, 220 v for commercial. Mine has a lever to release the locks. They don't need to be bolted to the floor but I recommend it if you plan on working on cars. The two post is the way to go if you plan on using it more for working on cars, I find the 4 post is still a little awkward because the ramps still get in the way. Plus you still have to come up with a solution to support the car to remove the wheels for doing brakes, etc. When they ship it there's no way your going to get it off the back of the trailer, shippers will move it to the end of the trailer, you will have to provide the man power to get it to the garage, one heavy mother !! I had mine shipped to my friend's work and it was unloaded with a fork lift and put into a small cargo van and then delivered to my house. This way you can disassemble it and take it off the truck in pieces a lot easier and close to the garage. Plan on a good part of the day to put it together, we put mine together with just two people and an engine lift. I've had mine now for 5 years no regrets getting a 110 volt system.

 

Did you cut roof support trusts out ? Appears that way in photo?

 

Thanks for this, I am also considering a 4-post but was wondering if the engine could be removed on the mondial t. I have also heard that with a 2 post there is the danger of the car falling when the weight of the engine/drivetrain is separated.

Dave

 

With a 4 post I would have to say no, I'm putting an engine in my 911 and I have to do it on jack stands on the floor. A two post you can get portable floor extensions that could support the back of the car while it's on the two post lift.

 

It could happen if you really screw up and don't have much spread on the arms but not very likely. The center of gravity even without the power unit is still going to be between the lift points.

I've taken some pretty heavy engines out of cars and never had one tip off yet.

Right now I have a Jaguar Etype on my lift with engine, transmission, bonnet and half the front suspension off. It's pretty light in the front now but it's not going anywhere. Just for insurance I C-clamped the car to one of the front lift arms.

 

Dave,

Best safest way to do it on a 2 post lift.

http://www.nationalautotools.com/

Jim
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For me, the best option was a single post lift. It maximizes the space in the garage.
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Now that's really cool. My wife would require about a half dozen tequila shots before she would allow her car to be parked under there though.

 

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