Life with the 412 AND 400i...Day one | FerrariChat

Life with the 412 AND 400i...Day one

Discussion in '365 GT4 2+2/400/412' started by full_garage, Feb 28, 2011.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. full_garage

    full_garage Formula 3
    Owner

    Feb 15, 2010
    2,241
    Sarasota Florida
    Full Name:
    Jay
    #1 full_garage, Feb 28, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    OK so the other piece of the puzzle- my pristine 1988 412 in Argento Nurburgring with red interior arrived today. As is typical with all my car deliveries it was an absolutely abyssmal day- cold and rainy with deep puddles of salt and grit...Not Ferrari weather.

    The car came off the truck unscathed but running a bit rough...So it was time for a quick "Italian Tuneup"- got her out of local traffic and onto the road for a few minutes- took forever for the car to come up to temp but finally we had some heat and she was running on 12...

    The difference between my 1983 400i and this particular 88 412 are fairly large in many areas. Obviously driving position is similar- the seats adjust a bit more on the 412 and the wheel seems to sit just a tad higher. The 412 has a deep maroon interior that is remarkable- original Connolly leather and still glove soft and smooth and fragrant- the 400i was completely reskinned 2 years ago- yet eh 412 leather looks nicer and newer- go figure.

    The 328 era switches look so much more refined and modern- while the Series II switchgear REALLY looks and feels vintage- not in a bad way, but the 412 just feels very contemporary while the 400i feels very classic.


    Power- Everyone wants to know- what is it like driving a really STRONG 400i with a rebuilt engine, trannny and clutch vs a dead stock 412 with a "Slushbox"?? Honestly... the 412 is FANTASTIC fun... yes I love a manual tranny and the 400i feels like a hotrod, but the 412 auto puts the power down so seamlessly and so endlessly- it's unlike anything you've ever driven with an auto- NOT like a Jag which has such a narrow torque bandwidth and NOTHING like an American car that produces lots of low end torque but little upper end torque-This thing is a locomotive and it is ridiculously enthralling to put your foot to the floor and feel the thing come to life.

    We jumped out of the 412 into the 400i and right away you could feel this car was more on the edge- more hair trigger- my gearbox is perfect on the 400i and shifts are effortless. Such totally different driving experiences really- the 412 so quiet and refined and the 400i so Daytona-like and brash. (MOstly due to the very loud Stebor vs the quieter and classier Stainless Ansa system)

    Driving the cars you really can feel the difference a fairly involved suspension rebuild makes- while the 412 is in as pristine condition as any example on the planet- the rebuilt front end of the 400i transform the car- the 412 is a bit vague and wallowy- the 400i laser sharp. Remarkably the 400i has a much smoother refined ride- i think that is entirely due to the brand new TRX's on the 400i, vs older rubber on the 412- The 412 TRX tires show FAR less wear than the 400is, just older, harder rubber.

    I've had the 400i for two weeks and have so far fixed any number of odd leaks and rattles, sorted the sound system, power antenna dilemna, fuse and relay board nightmares and a few other things. My passenger window is croaked and after refinishing my power mirrors they don't work. I have some dented trim but cannot figure out how to get it off, But I was able to find a replacement glove box flashlight and got that hooked up- only took 6 hours. So far so good.

    The 412 is going to need tires for sure and probably I'll spend the dough and rebush the entire car- but cosmetically shes as perfect as a brand new car.

    I'm tickled to death that I have both of these in the stable, and swapping them back and forth is going to be a blast. More and better photos after Winter releases her Icy grip on us here in the Northeast.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  2. Flinch

    Flinch Formula Junior

    Nov 15, 2009
    302
    Holland and Sweden
    Full Name:
    Peter El Cheapo
    That interior is sweeeet :) Really nice! Also fun to read how they are different to drive. But, everyone must agree, that an automatic suits these cars.

    Sir, you are a very lucky man to own these two (and some others ;) )
     
  3. Cornbread

    Cornbread Formula Junior

    Mar 21, 2009
    590
    Bham/Maple Valley WA
    That is a stunning color combination.
     
  4. maxg765

    maxg765 Rookie

    Feb 8, 2011
    15
    Full Name:
    Max Gruenberg
    Hi Jay,

    Very nice first impressions. I am not surprised about the automatic suiting the car. Many criticize the 412 for not being pure since it has a GM box. Many other manufacturers of time also sourced GM auto boxes (Jaguar etc). It was what worked when lots of power was in the picture. I am sure Ferrari had the choice to use any box available at the time. The GM units were probably best suited and able to handle the power. What most forget or choose to ignore is that its not just a pure GM Slushbox in its raw form. It has been tweaked for the 412 by Ferrari. Hence your description of how well suited it is and how power is just endless yet smooth... I don't speak from personal experience as I have yet to acquire my own 412 or driven one but it just seems to makes sense. Your "review" confirms it. I look forward to adding my own comments from real experience soon.

    I look forward to hearing more about the handling differences once you've changed the TRX's and worked on rebushing the 412.

    By the way, that contrast silver and grey!!!!!!!!! Wow!!!

    Regards

    Max
     
  5. aidanparte

    aidanparte Formula 3

    Jul 18, 2004
    1,222
    Gorgeous 412, Jay. You are really living up to your moniker now!

    Aidan
     
  6. full_garage

    full_garage Formula 3
    Owner

    Feb 15, 2010
    2,241
    Sarasota Florida
    Full Name:
    Jay
    Thanks guys- Gotta say if you have a 400 - you should get some seat time in a 412- really a wonderful car.

    Spent what felt like an eternity trying to figure out the ridiculously expensive sound system installed in this car- Finally figured out how to force a code into the flip-face Kenwood Excelon receiver and Voila- it sprang into life- A little out of date but 10 cd changer- JBL speakers and high power amp under the spare- very nice- kind of an unexpected bonus cause I did not even notice if it had a radio at all when I bought it!

    Found the cause for the wallowing- front sway bar bushings are both worn- I'll have those changed by next week- rest of the suspension looks rock solid and frankly- good as new. The hard ride is something I have to investigate- Either the tires or the accumulators- have not really checked into them yet so that's next on the list- cause the ride of the 400i is just incredible - and I want THAT ride quality on the 412 too.

    Having a 400 makes me appreciate the "modernity" of the 412 even more- and having a cushy 412 makes me appreciate the vintage-feeling 400i even more... Just having all the fans working, all the windows working and BRIGHT headlights is a revelation.

    We'll see how we all get along as I put some miles on these over the next 6-8 months.
     
  7. Glaverbel911

    Glaverbel911 Karting

    Feb 20, 2010
    79
    Neustadt ADW/Toronto
    Full Name:
    R. Groß
    #7 Glaverbel911, Mar 1, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Nice Jay.. Thats the way to photograph the red interior,, without a flash !!! It makes all the difference and portrays the more natural colour..
    I see only small differences now between my 83' 400 and your 412.. the heater control, steering wheel and speakers on the dash.. subtle differences. Oatmeal carpet vs red.
    The 328 switch gear does change the feel of the car and brings it up an era from the previous models. But it always gives the feeling that it was an after thought,,, randomly placed and typical of all exotics.. they're main focus was always the mechanicals anyways.

    I also just noticed the 412 lost the Bright trim below the door line.

    Cant wait to see it in person one day or better yet a test drive.. Leave the kids at home and bring it up .. ))

    Best,, Robert..
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  8. It's Ross

    It's Ross Formula 3

    Jul 30, 2007
    2,028
    Barrington, Ill. USA
    Full Name:
    Ross
    Have a look at the date code on your TRXs. These things are hard as a brick when old, the car will ride like a lumber wagon.
    Regarding that Kenwood Excelon, be careful of how the flourescent display is treated, they are known delicate items. If you think it's tough to operate now try to navigate when the display goes dark. The radio placement exposes it to direct sun and heat so maybe remove the face when parked. Experience speaking here.
     
  9. full_garage

    full_garage Formula 3
    Owner

    Feb 15, 2010
    2,241
    Sarasota Florida
    Full Name:
    Jay
    Which one is the date code on the Coker-Made reissues??
     
  10. ArtS

    ArtS F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Nov 11, 2003
    8,993
    Central NJ
  11. full_garage

    full_garage Formula 3
    Owner

    Feb 15, 2010
    2,241
    Sarasota Florida
    Full Name:
    Jay
    I have nothing with "DOT" followed by a code on my tires- Perhaps they are flipped around- I'll have to pull one-

    The Spare is dated 2005.
     
  12. Fritz Ficke

    Fritz Ficke Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 3, 2006
    2,175
    Tucson, AZ.
    Full Name:
    Fritz Ficke
    The "Coker made reissues" are made in France by Michelin.
    Coker just buys and sells these tires.
     
  13. full_garage

    full_garage Formula 3
    Owner

    Feb 15, 2010
    2,241
    Sarasota Florida
    Full Name:
    Jay
    OK Mystery solved-

    Tires made in 1997- FOURTEEN YEAR OLD TIRES- and honestly- they look great- they look like they're 1 or 2 years old.

    I think the tires are the cause of all of my handling and ride issues- Cause really everything looks very, very fresh on this car- Even those front sway bar bushings, on second glance really look OK-

    Will investigate new tires or new wheel/tire sets and I think we'll be in good shape.
     
  14. ArtS

    ArtS F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Nov 11, 2003
    8,993
    Central NJ
    Oooh, pretty hockey pucks.... :D
     
  15. SouthJersey400i

    SouthJersey400i Formula 3

    Mar 14, 2007
    1,603
    Romulus, NY (Finger Lakes)
    Full Name:
    Ken Battle
    If your mirror issues prove to be the switch, it is a very available BMW part ($48). Do a thread search or send me a pm for the BMW part number.
    Ken
     
  16. full_garage

    full_garage Formula 3
    Owner

    Feb 15, 2010
    2,241
    Sarasota Florida
    Full Name:
    Jay
    Yeah I already replaced it with the BMW unit for $26- As I take stuff apart when i find a peice that is common to something lse I replace it just cause it looks fresher- Somehow power no longer flows to the switch and fuses and relays are OK- No big deal I buttoned it back up for now- when I have some more patience I'll track it down.
     
  17. full_garage

    full_garage Formula 3
    Owner

    Feb 15, 2010
    2,241
    Sarasota Florida
    Full Name:
    Jay
    Had both of the cars out today- Still a bit messy here in new England but no salt on the roads.

    Don't they look nice together?? For sure the 400i looks meaner and racier with it's deep dish wheels, black beltline and trim tail- the 412 looks elegant and smooth- with it's body colored bumpers and fatter, more Euro tail. White on a 400i is seemingly not anybody's first choice- yet it does make the car look very low and very long - in a good way-

    Seems as Ferraris get newer they get smoother and quieter- my 355 feels like a spaceship by comparison- If I had a 458 in the garage it would feel like a science fiction movie prop.

    Got almost all of the little annoying stuff fixed so far- Windows work (Hooray!!) - took them apart on both cars- cleaned everything, lubed everything- new cables- took great pains to level them to the car perfectly and added the dual relay mod for each side- Window nirvana! Strongly recommend the dual relay mod and cleaning and aligning your windows- works wonders.

    Got some better looks lenses coming for the 400i and new wheels and tires for the 412- But we're looking and feeling pretty good. Big box of goodies from Eurospares to replace the couple of trim pieces that were dinged and the missing tranny inspection plate on the 400i. New interior door rubber on both cars- A little tough to slam the doors hard enough but NO wind noise whatsoever.

    The 412 continues to impress- Just seamless endless power and grunt- I was sort of making the point that the stock auto is pretty good- who would need a shift kit- I took it to my tranny guy to have him do a basic service- He dropped the pan and showed me that the tranny had been completely rebuilt with a Corvette shift kit - My guy said it's the same thing he installs on 80s vettes all the time and it's "Bulletproof"- I guess that's why this car feel so strong and downshift instantly- So if you have investigated a shift kit- DO IT- remarkable how good the car is when the tranny reacts to your every whim. That said The car feels NOTHING like my 400i 5 speed- It's still smooth and quiet and the 400i is fast and aggressive..

    Got to admit- people are BLOWN AWAY by these cars- The red interior of the silver car draws a crowd wherever it goes- And of course pop the hood on either car and that masterpeice of an engine makes jaws drop. The only negative words were from the Fat kid who works at my local autoparts store- when I said the fuses I was buying are for a Ferrari 400i he said, "Oh those K car looking things? I see them on ebay all the time for $10 grand." But I guess that's the way $6.35 an hour clerks look at things...

    I am so glad that I bought the RIGHT cars. I honestly think the 412 is the finest one in existence- I know some of you have amazingly clean cars (So no offense)- but really, when I have a chance to show this car to some of you in person I think you'll agree this is among the best examples of this car on the road- Coker confirmed for me that my tires are NOT FROM 1997... They are from 1987...ORIGINAL TIRES! And honestly they look brand new. (And as hard as diamonds) I guess that's how you do 18,000 miles in 24 years- you drive to car shows and then back home.

    The 400i was a very well used car that was in very presentable condition- and then got a fairly complete rebuild from nose to tail- Not a concours job but A- cosmetically , A+++++ mechanically. Perfect clutch, strong synchros- the 5 speed is slick and smooth and quiet, engine fires first turn and just PURRS even when cold. Damn I was SO CLOSE to buying 5 other cars, and feel lucky to have made the right decisions. Did not intend to buy two, but you know how things happen sometimes...

    More reports as we get some miles under our belts.
     
  18. full_garage

    full_garage Formula 3
    Owner

    Feb 15, 2010
    2,241
    Sarasota Florida
    Full Name:
    Jay
  19. Flat_Twelve

    Flat_Twelve Karting

    Dec 28, 2008
    163
    Canada
    Full Name:
    Neil
    Great looking cars, Jay! The 412 colours are simply stunning.

    I actually quite like the 400i in white.

    I can't wait to find one for myself (but in Nero or Rosso, of course :) )

    Cheers,
    Neil
     
  20. full_garage

    full_garage Formula 3
    Owner

    Feb 15, 2010
    2,241
    Sarasota Florida
    Full Name:
    Jay
    Thanks Neil-

    Aidan came by in his Nero Series I and the car looks FABULOUS in darker colors. I saw a couple of black 400s in my searches and black is tough- unless it is absolutely perfect it kind of ruins the lines of the car- Find a good one!

    DEfinitely eyes wide open on buying one of these- But if you've lived with a TR these are SIMPLE...
     
  21. Flat_Twelve

    Flat_Twelve Karting

    Dec 28, 2008
    163
    Canada
    Full Name:
    Neil
    Thanks for torturing me, Jay! Haha! A mint Nero-on-tan would have me on the next plane to where-ever, cheque in hand...

    ...and it's driving me absolutely batsh!t crazy that I can't find one right now! There were a few for sale in the past year or so that were close enough to what I want that I'd have bought them, but I either wasn't ready to move on them at the time or was too slow on the draw. Now the garage is done, I've sorted out what I want and...no cars for sale. #$#&$#&!!!!!

    You make a few good points, too. You're right, after living with the TR for over 40,000kms, everything else seems inexpensive and simple by comparison. My mechanic has warned me off the 400i numerous times, almost to the point of pleading with me not to do it, but I just want one and have for 20 years. Even still, I'm not too worried about the costs as I haven't overextended myself in order to play in the club, so to speak.

    You play, you pay - simple as that. Once that's out of the way, the cars are hopelessly addicitve. I'm thinking of ordering license plates that say "NTRVNSHN".

    Cheers,
    Neil
     
  22. Flat_Twelve

    Flat_Twelve Karting

    Dec 28, 2008
    163
    Canada
    Full Name:
    Neil
    Great stuff! Thanks, I hadn't seen that site!

    I am completely fine with the idea of doing a Euro import.

    Cheers,
    Neil
     
  23. Glaverbel911

    Glaverbel911 Karting

    Feb 20, 2010
    79
    Neustadt ADW/Toronto
    Full Name:
    R. Groß
  24. Flat_Twelve

    Flat_Twelve Karting

    Dec 28, 2008
    163
    Canada
    Full Name:
    Neil
    #25 Flat_Twelve, Mar 5, 2011
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2011
    Robert, I really appreciate the info and there are two cars on the site you sent earlier that I'm going to contact on Monday.

    Absolutely, if you'd be so kind please indeed let me know if you see anything at Essen. I'm looking for a Rosso or Nero Automatic 400i (not manual), Series 1 car. I'd rather lower mileage (under 70kms), but I'm more concerned that it has a completely solid body.

    While I'd love to buy something in California and drive it home just for the trip, theoretically I'd much rather acquire a European car than a grey-market US car - of course, assuming the price, shipping and import paperwork justifies it.

    I'm ready to go on my end as soon as I find the right car.

    Cheers,
    Neil

    EDIT: Jay, my apologies for the accidental thread hijack. In hindsight, I should have started a new one. Best, Neil.
     

Share This Page