Lexus LFA Nürburgring Package smashes Nordschliefe production record with 7:14 lap

"ring records"


Here we go again!

 

I find the Japanese manufacturers' obsession with Nürburgring times quite strange. They seem to be a lot more important to marketing over there than here.

 

what i thot a gumpert did it faster?

the obsession runs deep w/ Americans too.

 

Its all a load of crap. Without an impartial source obtaining a true "production" piece, timing by a legit sanctioning body and some type of consistency with drivers and track conditions, non of the figures provide anything but internet giggles. The Japanese seem particularly adept at "fudging" results. Probably a natural outgrowth of the equally nonsensical dyno numbers produced by Supra owners.

 

I agree, but lets face it - it for some reason matters to the general population and so that's why the bar has been set at that course.

 

+1,000,0000

How many of these fugly cars are they going to produce anyway?

 

If that lap time is legit then WOW, what an incredible car. It looks great, sounds better and apparently is now showing it's got the performance to back it up. The LFA is quickly becoming one of my all time favorite cars.

 

There are only 500 total planned, with 50 being the 'Ring edition.

Lexus is not so overly obsessed with 'Ring times. This special edition has been announced a long, long time ago and only now, during a press and training day for customers, have they tried anything like a 10/10ths effort.
Looking at the tires on these LFAs, they don't seem so intent on outright lap times. The standard car is on S001, which were an OEM fitment for the 458. Yet how many tests have we seen for a 458 on S001? Like, none. All have been on PS2 through last year, and now with its successor the Pilot Super Sport, which Ferrari claims is no slower than a Cup tire in their specific applications. The 'Ring edition LFA is on the slower of the 2 summer tires that Nissan used for its Mk1 R35. The Mk2 now has grippier RE070s, and the fastest tires are still Dunlops (which have been improved as well).

Looks and sounds great, IMO. A very special machine that should appeal to drivers who like their cars responsive, edgy, and very vocal.

 

Every manufacturer fudges numbers. Ferrari first and foremost.

 

Maybe so, but I don't see Ferrari routinely publishing ridiculous 'Ring numbers that no one else is ever able to duplicate-even to the extent that they are called on it by another manufacturer(ala Nissan). There is a reason Ferrari is Ferrari(and has had waiting lists for many of their models) and Toyota/Lexus/whatever can't give those overpriced, goofy LFAs away.

There is also the racing connection. Nothing really needs to be said about Ferrari's record in the ultimate arena-in comparison, Toyota has exactly zero wins in F1(despite spending more than anyone in history). They did, however, manage to win a Nascar race last week-end in a plastic bodied "Camry" powered by a pick-up engine.

LFA-Loser Ferrari Alternative, no thanks.

 

Hey Steve, did you see the All New 2012 Camry? How about that LFA influence?

 

So you're saying the California or 612 excites you more than the LFA? Ok, you are entitled to that opinion. Just so you know, the LFA has had multiple class wins at VLN enduros and the 24 Hours of Nurburgring races. It sounds to me like a lot of badge snobbery is going on here.
McLaren had a good F1 record back when it tried to sell 300 F1s. I think you make too much of the F1 connection. Lamborghini has very little real F1 experience, and Koenigsegg/Pagani have none. That doesn't mean we can't appreciate them for the fine automobiles that they are.

 

Fully agree. Not to mention Toyota has a great rallying heritage as well. And I'd be genuinely surprised if even 10% of Ferrari's F1 technology makes it into their road cars, since they are worlds apart.

In addition, several journalists and EVO magazine have picked the lfa over rivals from Ferrari; to claim it's only a "Toyota" and a glorified Camry/Corolla/whatever is akin to saying a Veyron is only a "Volkswagen", a glorified Passat, etc.

 

first of all, i'm a HUGE fan of Ferrari, Lambo, Aston, etc...to me they are different for different emotional needs.

on point: the 'hate' on this Toyota is beyond ridiculous. it is rampant on every forum, chat site, etc. me, i'm a fan of technology, a fan of hardware, the sounds, the emotions dream cars such as the LFA, 458, etc etc give. the LFA reminds me of the old panoz front-mid LMP cars. badge snoberry has everything to do with the bashing on this Toyota. the carbon work, the interior design and fit finish, and that ridiculously wicked fantastic V-10...the LFA is more akin to F1 tech and sound than ANY Ferrari or Mclaren. people seem to forget that Toyota has made some amazing F1 engines,,,REAL ones (athough LFA's was joint venture with Yamaha). breaking down the hardware you get, plus add Lexus quality, 375k base price is NOT a lot to ask. a 599 HGTE--a fantastic car--is 400K but you are getting NOWHERE near the same for the money. response to that is usually: "but Ferrari is a Ferrari, it has F1 'heritage' blah blah blah"...
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first of all, this is not a Ferrari bashing post, but a 'wait a second, lets check the rosso colored glasses a bit' post.

brand snob is the only way you are coming across as. very fanboy in your delivery sir. Ferrari routinely publishes lap times up the yin yang, and at a place no one else is allowed to storm: Fiorano. you think those lap times aren't a big part of marketing? racing connection= end all be all? hmm. the marketing department has done its job EXTREMELY well over the last 10 years, and you using that as an ace of sorts proves it. selective memory i guess. remember how long Ferrari has been in F1? ok, do you also remember those years when they couldn't win a race if the Tifosi lives depended on it..years and years and years going by without success? ah, those days where cars sat in showrooms going nowhere, even at huge discounts..heck, they couldn't give away the cars. waiting lists= end all be all? i think not. you didn't say this, but the dumbest most ignorant fanboy hate bs has to be "it's still just a Toyota"...err yeah, like a 458 is just a Fiat, a Veyron just a VW, etc, etc, etc.

also, there are many factors to succeeding in F1, and to use Toyota's lack of success in that arena as a means to marginalize the LFA is utterly ignorant. since you like to use the F1 legacy and 'ties to F1= end all be all coolness', let me get back to this: how much of the Ferrari's F1 racers technology directly makes it onto the car in your driveway (or bedroom poster) NO current or any recent Ferrari even SOUNDS like an F1 car..despite the marketing and media hype in EVERY article pertaining to Ferrari and their cars/engines. you know what makes me laugh? the irony that a tractor company has a far more compelling F1-esque to any Ferrari road car..even the "racing road cars" such as Enzo FXX, 599XX, 458 GT2/Challenge/whatever. Rosso colored glasses now finished being recalibrated.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=go6kxyKSDZ0[/ame]

 

I would still take a Porsche 911 GT2 RS4.0 over a lexus.

*Flame suit on*

 

an absolutely miserable device. As an enthusiast, its difficult to understand how they sell so many. At that price point, there are a number of other cars I'd chose to DD.

The California and the 612 hardly qualify as examples of Ferrari's ultimate performers, do they? But, to follow your line of reasoning, yes, I'd prefer the Cali over the Solara vert and the 612 over whatever self-parking, big barge Lexus currently offers.
The LFA race "wins" are essentially unknown. No badge snobbery here-my fleet includes(along with my F-cars). a wide variety of fun vehicles with zero valet appeal. The racing connection is important to me, as is the consistency that Ferrari has demonstrated over the years-they are in competition for better or worse, for the long haul. No flavor of the month, flash-in-the-pan or "lets dabble in motorsports" attitudes in Marenello.
I do appreciate all of the examples that you have mentioned, even the LSA. I just think it has odd and overwrought styling(as do many auto style analysts), is a bit of a reach price wise and has no connection what so ever to motorsports(important to me, if not others). This conversation started because of what I, and many others, believe to be the reliance on self generated, inflated 'Ring times-not whether or not the LFA was an interesting exotic.

Toyota's motorsport history has hardly set the world on fire-not really what there company is about, is it? Dan Gurney built them some winners, as did a couple of off-road legends-any big winners in the other series? not really.

No hate, just dont believe the track numbers, thats all. I think you are perhaps the one carrying it a bit too far towards fanboi land-"more F1 tech and sound than any Ferrari or McLaren"? "Fit and Finish" better than the others, too? Hardly. IMO, its styling is awkward at best, there are gimmick laded elements to its design-both inside and out and I think some of it is just plain ugly. Toyota did produce some F1 engines-just none that won anything. I prefer a car with the staying power, championships and commitment evidenced by Ferrari.

Sure, Ferrari publishes times at their own test track. They compare one model of Ferrari to another. I don't ever recall them timing LFAs or Porsches and claiming their cars were faster at Fiorano. The 'ring nonsense hae gotten out of hand for the reasons I mentioned a few posts ago. That was the point of this conversation, not so much whether or not I'd prefer a Toyota over a Ferrari(I wouldn't). I haven't selectively forgotten anything. I'm fully aware that Ferrari has encountered lean times in F1 over the years. I don't consider that a negative, as they have stuck with it and raced EVERY year. They don't run back to Toyota City with their tails between their legs when the been counters finally pull the plug on a massively expensive, failing effort. Competition is an integral part of Ferrari-period. That appeals to me and has influenced many of my purchases over the years. You hear over and over again from journalists and enthusiasts alike-"you must own a Ferrari at some point in your life if you can". I don't ever recall hearing this about a Toyota,Lexus,LFA-whatever.
As to the "tractor" cars as you put it, exotics to be sure, and fun cars-I prefer the Ferrari to them as well.
BTW, the only car posters I have are of John Greenwood's Corvette and the Adomowicz/Morton Daytona-in my garage, not bedroom.

As would I.

 

Waitaminute. Is this a discussion about the brand or the car in question which set the lap time? It seems you are incapable of seeing past the brand. Tell me again why Ferrari is owned by FIAT. Just as you play the F1 championship card, one could play a card far more relevant to road cars: mechanical reliability and resistance to self-immolation.
Whether those races wins are relatively unknown is inconsequential. Among racing enthusiasts, it's something that is known. Would you extend that same cynicism to Lamborghini and Pagani? If your fleet of fun vehicles truly includes something beyond considerations of "valet appeal," then the LFA sounds like something that should be up your alley. By most accounts by anyone who has driven it, it's a fun, visceral experience.
Stying is subjective. If there's a lot to like when looking at a GTO, then there's equally a lot to like when looking at an LFA Nurburgring Edition.

A marque has to "set the world on fire" for you to accept a car for what it is? For the record, they've won FIA WRC titles. IMSA GTO/GTU championships too, and wins at 24 Hours of Daytona, 12 Hours of Sebring.

 

GT3 RS 4.0...

 

It's the Porsche part that counts.

And damn, watching that Lambo on the hillclimb course...if that doesn't stir the soul of a car enthusiast, no matter Lambo's history in F1, I don't know what does.

 

Oh, right. Sorry for typo, was too anxious to recheck.

 

I have read the same -- and that manufacturers calibrate their Nurburgring testing cars well beyond what you or I could walk in and buy from a dealer.

Also, at some point it's down to the skill of the driver. Until we have computers controlling the car, there's no real way to get the margin of error close to zero.

Why would you need a flame suit to take a Porsche over a Lexus?

The GT3 RS is one of the most visceral cars out there, and while I haven't been in a 4.0 version I can't imagine it would be any less so.

 

From a race driver's perspective, even with computers controlling it, you still will not have the same conditions. My local kart track - I drive 100-500 practice laps a week. At a given moment, my times can vary by up to 1 1/2 seconds a lap(low 41's to mid/high 42's). Multiply the 2/3rd's of a minute out to a 7 and a half minute lap time, and track conditions could account for at least 10 seconds - in the dry. Of course, the published figures from Nissan with the GTR that where so controversial are going to be when they ran in the best conditions. That may not be the case for when lap times from other cars are pulled and compared.

Also - no matter how skilled a driver may be, driver's have their own driving styles, and there can be setups and cars that even a highly skilled race driver will struggle with. Having the same driver is not really a good idea, especially if you are comparing a REAR ENGINED 911 to a FRONT ENGINED LFA - they have different dynamics. Put a 911 specialists in the 911, and a LFA specialists in the LFA. If you want, switch drivers and see how they do.

I like to compare vehicle's when I'm at the track by going out with another driver, racing hard, then switching into each others equipment. I swapped karts with a NASCAR driver last night, and both of us where a lot slower in each others karts. He thought mine was too loose, and he lost a lot of time sliding and being inconsistent, I thought his had too much understeer in the lefts and it really made me struggle getting a good exit without washing out. Switch us back, and we both get faster. If you used him as the driver for test data, his kart would of been faster than mine, but if you used me as the driver for the test data, my kart would look faster than his.

I consider the LFA an amazing vehicle, but I take lap times with a grain of salt.