Legal questions about Stebro Ltd. in Ontario | Page 2 | FerrariChat

Legal questions about Stebro Ltd. in Ontario

Discussion in 'Canada' started by Zarathustra, Aug 9, 2011.

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  1. pgarossino

    pgarossino Formula Junior

    Nov 19, 2009
    307
    Houston Tx
    Full Name:
    Paul G.A. Garossino
    Unfortunately this story has a bad ending.

    It appears that Dan at Stebro may well be a thief.

    There are three parts to this story.

    Part 1 - the stainless hi-flow muffler. It arrived quickly and fits the application. The build quality is so-so but hey, it is less than half the price of a Tubi. Unfortunately it is WAY too loud for daily use without the tip inserts which were supposed to come with it but have never arrived. As it is now seven months since I ordered them and Dan has stopped answering my phone/email queries, I can only surmise they never will. Too damn bad because the tip insert option would likely make it all worthwhile.

    Part2. the tip inserts. Never came with the muffler, have never been delivered since. Dan has told me on at least three occasions that they would be shipped by such and such a date which of course they never were. I am sure he was just stringing me along until Visa figured it was too late to dispute the original purchase. The lack of inserts make the muffler useless for daily use and a waste of my hard earned money. The muffler would be great for track day but a bit of a pain to have to install it for that then swap it out again. I find myself with pretty bad tinnitis after about 40 minutes of driving. If I drive with noise cancellation headphones all is well, but of course that is a bit dangerous in Houston traffic. It does cut down on tail-gaters as the car is so loud I can see them covering their ears in my rear-view mirror :) In the end I took it off and reinstalled my stock muffler. The Stebro unit sits on the parts shelf until the day I either finally get the tip inserts or manage to have some manufactured for it by someone else.

    Part3 - the stainless hi-flow cat. It tooks months to arrive and when it did it was very shoddy build quality and contained a stock, not a hi-flow core. I shipped it back to him for refund, which I have never received. Looks like he has stolen the $650 from me on that score. I even shipped it back on my own dime so I am out even more. I purchased a FabSpeed hi-flow stainless cat. Fantastic build quality, much cheaper than Stebro, arrived in a couple of days and did contain a hi-flow core.

    It has now been over a month since his last email which was not much of an email. It was a partial sentence claiming that he was going to have sorted out the cat refund by Mar 17th. Still no refund in sight and though I have sent at least 3 emails since, no response from Dan.

    My recommendation:

    Stay far far FAR away from Stebro for anything to do with Ferrari, actually for anything period.

    I have given up on him, written off the $650.00 and tip inserts, am publicizing this on Fchat and will put in a complain with his local BBB, then will move on with my life. He is not worth the stress on my blood pressure that it would take to make him pony up to his responsibilities.

    I do get up to Ontario now and again. Next time up there I will cruise over to his shop and see him in person. That should be interesting. Perhaps I better bring an OPP rep with me when I do.

    Paul
     
  2. MS250

    MS250 Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Dec 10, 2003
    26,120
    Full Name:
    Avvocato
    Paul, I am truly sorry to hear of this.....thank you for sharing this, hopefully, this will save some others this type of headache.
     
  3. blkprlz

    blkprlz Formula 3

    Mar 24, 2007
    2,169
    Tampa bay
    Full Name:
    Bruce
    Paul,

    Just happened to notice this thread on Fchats home page immediately after your response, I don't follow Canada's threads.

    Typically you have 2 statement periods (60 days) to dispute a charge when it first shows up on your statement. You tried your best to work w/the company & were patient (& I'm figuring considerate) through the whole process & a lot of time passed trying to work w/them. I'd call the bank & explain the whole story (being lead on,...waiting...waiting...waiting), one part delivered, waiting for the other, etc.. I'd hope they would take that into consideration.

    It used to be yrs. ago (15+) that you could just call the bank, verbally explain your situation, you'd receive an immediate credit to your account & it would be finalized pending their investigation. Anymore, you have to submit the dispute in writing & it subsequently goes through arbitration after their investigation. Through a very detailed explanation/timeline in writing, they might make an exception. You're not the 1st one that has had problems w/Stebro & don't know anything about class action lawsuits/# of people necessary to lodge such an action, unfortunately most atty's. will tell you it's not worth any one's time for such a small amount if you're going at it alone. :(
    If class action is an option, start a new thread in the General Discussion section to get your group together, it should get more exposure there. B.
     
  4. Zarathustra

    Zarathustra Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    May 7, 2006
    863
    Hawaii
    Full Name:
    Gary Robinson
    Gentlemen, I am one of many defrauded Stebro customers.
    Unfortunately I paid Dan Petschenig by check and he only sent part of the system.
    The parts he send did not fit and had the wrong flanges.
    Dan has not responded to phone messages, emails or letters.

    Is there a Canadian “small claims court” and can I sue Dan via the mail or do I have to do this in person in Canada?

    The missing parts are worth US$500 and the parts and labor to correct the sent parts will probably be about US$1000 (I’m still waiting for the final bill from the installer), so it is questionable whether this is worth taking to an attorney. (Unless someone knows of a simpatico Tifosi/attorney in Ottawa?)

    What to do?
     
  5. La_Rossa

    La_Rossa Karting

    May 11, 2012
    184
    Montreal
    Full Name:
    Mario
    Hey Gary,

    I presume that this person is in Ottawa?
    If so, I have a family member that is an attourney for the crown (government).
    Send me a PM and we'll continue through email.
    I will at least be able to find out what the process would be...or if it's worth going after...


    Regards,
    Mario
     
  6. gerritv

    gerritv Formula 3

    Jun 18, 2001
    1,400
    St Catharines
    Full Name:
    Gerrit
  7. Zarathustra

    Zarathustra Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    May 7, 2006
    863
    Hawaii
    Full Name:
    Gary Robinson
    Thank you for the effort and info, guys.
    I live in Oregon, and if one must appear in person for Ottawa's small claims court, Dan at Stebro believes he can get away with theft.

    No other creative ideas out there?
     
  8. jqpd99

    jqpd99 Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Jul 25, 2007
    1,827
    Ottawa
    Full Name:
    DFO
  9. ClassicFerrari

    ClassicFerrari F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 7, 2004
    16,798
    Toronto
    Full Name:
    Vasco
    Gary, i've merged your two threads. It's best to have one with all the facts. You're last one had some good input.

    Best of luck to you in this case.

    Cheers.
     
  10. Zarathustra

    Zarathustra Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    May 7, 2006
    863
    Hawaii
    Full Name:
    Gary Robinson
  11. Zarathustra

    Zarathustra Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    May 7, 2006
    863
    Hawaii
    Full Name:
    Gary Robinson
    Thanks for merging. There are numerous threads about Stebro's dishonesty on FChat.

    What's important is that everyone keeps Stebro in the headlines for unsuspecting prospective customers who Google "Stebro".

    Until Mr. Petschenig makes good on his obligations, he should feel confident that I (and many other FChat members) will hound him until his company's demise.
     
  12. gerritv

    gerritv Formula 3

    Jun 18, 2001
    1,400
    St Catharines
    Full Name:
    Gerrit
    Hi Gary,
    I only said that we appeared in person, I didn't say that you have to appear in person. In our case we happened to live 2 miles from the court where the case was heard. It is quite possible that you can send a proxy. I really suggest that you read the info at the link I provided.

    Gerrit
    ex-11966
     
  13. La_Rossa

    La_Rossa Karting

    May 11, 2012
    184
    Montreal
    Full Name:
    Mario
    Hey Gary,

    Gerrit's link is very useful if you haven't looked at it.
    You can sue for up to $25k in small claims court so you certainly should be able to file for the full amount.


    Here is a link to the consumer protection office of Ontario...

    http://www.sse.gov.on.ca/mcs/en/Pages/default.aspx

    hope this helps...
     
  14. Zarathustra

    Zarathustra Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    May 7, 2006
    863
    Hawaii
    Full Name:
    Gary Robinson
    Excellent information, Gerrit and Mario!

    We'll see what happens...

    Many Thanks!
     
  15. Fave

    Fave F1 Rookie

    Aug 12, 2010
    4,157
    Tarana
    Full Name:
    L. Ike Hunt
    What happened ?
     
  16. pgarossino

    pgarossino Formula Junior

    Nov 19, 2009
    307
    Houston Tx
    Full Name:
    Paul G.A. Garossino
    Lots more time has gone by and here is what has transpired with poor old Dan at Stebro, at least as related to the scam he pulled on me:

    1. I filed a BBB complaint with the Ottawa BBB. As soon as the BBB sent the complaint to Dan he replied to them with a bunch of taurus excretionis saying how I returned the cat for cosmetic reasons and that he would credit me whenever he sold the thing. I guess he put that piece of crap back in stock. At any rate I immediately replied to the BBB and explained that the cat he sent was NOT a high flow unit as advertised as it contained a stock core. It also did not have welded on bungs for the O2 sensor and temp sensor. In fact someone just cut threads in the stainless canister and hoped that the two threads they managed to create would be enough to secure the senders.....NOT!! For those two reason I returned the unit. He immediately said he would send me a refund. He finally DID send a check last October, but it was dated Nov 25th so I had to wait a month to deposit it. I sent him an e-mail and asked about that and he wrote back saying to deposit the check on Nov 25 as dated "for cash flow reasons". I deposited it on Dec 10 as I was out of town at my daughter's wedding on Nov 25. Big surprise, it bounced due to insufficient funds on Dec 14, costing me another $7 for my trouble. I updated the BBB complaint with this information and sent Dan another note. At this point all email to [email protected] or [email protected] is bouncing after about 4 days and multiple attempts at delivery. Also I see that www.stebro.com is now dead with a very odd notice saying that Stebro Stainless Performance is no longer allowed to use that domain. Could it be that Dan has finally fallen on his bankrupt sword????

    2. He stated on three different notes with the BBB that he would supply the missing tip inserts, and of course he never has. The man lies with the best of them and fully deserves his F rating, and a lot more.

    It is now the new year and Dan and Stebro have gone off the net. Through family, I have access to an ex-TO officer who currently works in the Ottawa area as a PI. I am going to have him investigate this guy. Should be interesting to see what he come up with. I'll post here when I get a report. I am having another family member take a drive over to Dan's shop address and tell me what, if anything, is physically there. They'll snap a cell phone pic and I'll post that as well.

    I did a web search on Dan and Stebro and quickly came up with horror story after horror story in not just the Ferrari world, but also the BMW and Lambo lists. Just a littany of fraud and deceit. There also seems to be someone still selling Stebro systems through ebay, but it is difficult to find out how their business is related to Dan.

    Lots of intrigue .... provides fun reading for all who have been robbed by this guy. I pulled an old Stebro stainless system out of my attic yesterday. It fits my Alfa Spider and now that she no longer needs to pass emissions I am going to reinstall it. I got that system back in the early 90's when Stebro was a real business with a real product. It is a great system and sounds sweet on that car.

    Life goes on............and it is good to keep this old Stebro thread churning every couple of months to lower the probability that a newbie should get robbed by this guy.

    Happy New Years all :)

    Paul



     
  17. cf355

    cf355 F1 Rookie

    Feb 28, 2005
    4,208
    Full Name:
    chris
    wow.......
    someone is still selling stebro products with the familiar stebro pics on ebay....wonder how they are related to dan and his business.
     
  18. cf355

    cf355 F1 Rookie

    Feb 28, 2005
    4,208
    Full Name:
    chris
  19. pgarossino

    pgarossino Formula Junior

    Nov 19, 2009
    307
    Houston Tx
    Full Name:
    Paul G.A. Garossino
  20. Jay GT4

    Jay GT4 F1 Rookie

    Oct 16, 2001
    4,995
    La mamma dei fessi
    Full Name:
    e sempre incinta
  21. ClassicFerrari

    ClassicFerrari F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 7, 2004
    16,798
    Toronto
    Full Name:
    Vasco
  22. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Four Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Made me look!!

    And, then snoop on their website.

    Seems they're still plugging away, making exhaust systems.

    D
     
  23. Joe Bergmann

    Joe Bergmann Karting

    Oct 24, 2005
    50
    Shoreview, Minnesota
    Full Name:
    Joe Bergmann
    For what it's worth, I have fallen for the same scam you have.

    I actually do have a 'system' for my 1977 308 GTB, it doesn't fit my car, of course, and the quality is horrible. As you have discovered, Stebro will gladly take your money, do nothing, and refuse to refund you.

    I am running an ebay ad and would love to have anyone considering Stebro for any exhaust to check it out and/or give me a shout. I would love to expand upon my experience.

    The only thing I have figured out to do is to run the ebay ad, contact the BBB, and I will be bringing the 'exhaust' to the FCA 50th this summer to be on display for all the Ferrari enthusiasts who attend. It'll be the one lying on the ground next to my car with full documentation regarding just what Stebro PSD provides! Is this legal? Hmmm. I own the exhaust, so I can say whatever I want about it, it's mine now.

    If you are thinking about going with Stebro, the only thing I can promise is this, you just might get an exhaust, it may work on your car, but you certainly will never see your money again.
     
  24. ferrarilover

    ferrarilover F1 Rookie

    Nov 5, 2003
    2,558
    Barrie, ON, Canada
    Full Name:
    Christopher Bailey
    I can't see it being illegal since it appears they are going out of business or have gone that way anyway. Can you post a link to the eBay ad?
     
  25. Joe Bergmann

    Joe Bergmann Karting

    Oct 24, 2005
    50
    Shoreview, Minnesota
    Full Name:
    Joe Bergmann
    The link is: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Stebro-Exhaust-Audi-BMW-Ferrari-Mercedes-Corvette-Camaro-Mustang-Lambo-/200873370898?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2ec4fc6512&vxp=mtr

    I'm not so sure they aren't just killing one company and creating another. I've seen that done before. I received an email from Dan a few weeks ago bragging about the new website. I commented to him I was impressed he could produce a new website, but not produce my exhaust and he provided the 'it's nearly complete' line.
     

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