Legal questions about Stebro Ltd. in Ontario

Your Canadian accent needs some work..........


In response to your request for help, my understanding is that Tan Auto Parts is or was the distributor and the go to people who are supposed to be representing Stebro. I think their mouth piece was named Serge. (1-613-742-1999)

There is a fairly lengthy thread on problems associated with these clowns on Lambo-talk.

While I hope that you recover your money or get an exhaust system that actually fits without modification, it would probably be a good thing if these tools went away permanently.

 

The same thing happen to me . I order headers for a 308 and they gave me a tracking number which never worked. I called and called. Finally I paid them a visit in person and did not leave until a got my money back. They are a work of art. They sould be shut down.
Do not buy from them..............

 

Good day Gary,

This is indeed an terrible situation!

As to the procedures... they are virtually the same as they are in the US. You can file a compliant with the BBB of Ontario, although Stebro is not a BBB member... however, this does not preclude you from filing a claim. Secondly, and this will cost some $$$, is to hire an Ontario lawyer to make a legal phone call ( letter, etc) informing Stebro that you are placing them on legal notice that they must provide you with the goods or a full refund within 30 days otherwise you will be bringing a claim against them (for a refund, loss of use, legal fees, etc). I have had to do this (a legal phone call on my behalf) a few times for companies that were jerking me around... and some of them were quite large and with attitude. In my case, the legal phone call worked out quite well and resolution was prompt.

Also, as an FYI... If you had paid via a Credit Card then there could have been a possibility that your CC Company would have intervened. That being said, CC Companies have time limits which they can intervene.

Cheers,

Sam

 

That's good advice Sam...

And yes they are in financial difficulties... at one point they weren't able to pay their employees so a lot of them left... many on FChat have voiced their discontent with the customer service from Stebro even before the financial turmoil...

Good Luck Gary

DF

 

Good day Gary,

I am sorry that I could not assist more and I do hope it all works out. Perhaps post a follow up once this issue comes to a conclusion (hopefully positive)!

For anyone else who is considering doing some business with Stebro, it would be best to check the BBB file on them. From the BBB it does look like some or all of the complaints were resolved, but it is hard to tell for sure from the BBB's site.

Cheers,

Sam

http://www.bbb.org/ottawa/business-reviews/auto-parts-and-supplies-new/stebro-psd-ltd-in-nepean-on-19698

 

I saw some of the postings warning about Stebro before I ordered my system [84 -308 GTS QV] but given that I had ordered and received many Stebro systems for my Alfa's in the past I figured I would chance it.

I called up Dan in late September and ordered a muffler, hi flow cat, gasket and tip inserts and gave him my credit card number. He dinged my credit card right away and the muffler arrived about three weeks later and seems to be the real deal. Nice stainless unit that I am eager to hear in action.

That is were things came off the rails however as it is now the end of November and I have yet to see the cat, gasket or inserts arrive.

I got Dan to respond a couple of times via e-mail. He said that the parts were to arrive on a couple of different dates, but they never did. This delay hasn't been an issue up until this week as the car is at Sphere Motorsports having an engine out experience so I had time to wait. It looks like Mark will have the lump back in this week after which we will be waiting on the Stebro delivery....bummer.

I have dropped a couple of emails and phoned and left messages but so far no further response from Dan. I'd really like to give him the benefit of the doubt as I have been happy with his product in the past, and the muffler he sent this time looks to be the real deal. However the lack of response to my queries is very worrisome.

I think I'll call VISA today and see what recourse I have through them at this late stage. Most likely too much time has passed for that to be a real option.

I hear Ricambi can supply a stainless high-flow cat and gasket, so perhaps I will order one from them so that we can get the car on the road. I would really like to receive the tip inserts however, as I would like to experiment a little with the sound.

I am hoping patience is a virtue on that score.........................

I don't think I have 7 months of patience in me however.

Sigh................
Paul

 

Good day Paul,

I am not trying to be down on Stebro and only make my comments in general terms here. However, you need to contact your CC company promptly, as they have time limits with which they can act on your behalf. In a number of situations where I had issues like this, I had to return the partially shipped goods via a shipping service that has a signed receipt of goods...and then the CC company would credit me the full amount.

Sadly, I had one recent experience where Visa is opting out not to get involved at all, as their policies are changing quite dramatically. In this case, I had a merchant bill a unauthorized recurring charge. When I contacted Visa their position was if you provide your CC info to the merchant they can do this (recurring charge) without a signed authorization from the CC holder... I was bewildered at such a statement and position... Thankfully the merchant reversed the charges after I proposed legal action.

Cheers,

Sam

 

Hi Sam,

I did call VISA and they say I have until Dec 26 to take action. They said they have no problem handling a "portion" of a purchase and they were happy to hear I was going to keep at it for another little bit.

So, I'll continue to give Dan a chance, but still no response. I'll add in an e-mail component after Thanksgiving [today in the states] as he has answered those once or twice before.

Ciao,
Paul

 

Usually where there is smoke, there is fire....too many iffy experiences from them from owners .....Too bad.

 

Hi Big Red,

I hope all is well with you and yours. Still have very fond memories of that great day up in Pickering with you guys.

Yeah, it is too bad because when you finally get their product it is top notch. I just wish I knew a little more of what is going on with Dan et al. They are great people but they do have issues with customer interaction.........and to be honest, two months to have a cat delivered that I could have gotten from Ricambi in a week is a bit much, even for me.

I do really want to see the tip inserts arrive however so I will persevere for just a little longer

Dan sent me an e-mail about 4 hours ago asking for my phone number so he could call me.........that could be good news

Ciao,
Paul

 

Glad to hear it Paul, hope it moves positive for you - all is well here my friend, hope you and yours are well , when you coming up to visit dad again? Wouldn't mind doing another onion ring and milk shake dinner

 

Well tomorrow is my deadline for Dan. He surfaced last Friday and asked for contact numbers for me.

Alas he never called. He has not indicated in any way that any further product is forthcoming from him. It is time to pull the trigger on the VISA complaint and order the cat and gaskets from Ricambi.

I will be doing that tomorrow morning....too bad. I was really hoping not to have to go this route, but Dan has brought this upon himself I am afraid. Once I start the VISA proceedings I suppose I can kiss my tip inserts good-by. I hope I like the sound of the Stebro muffler without them

I'll let y'all know how this works out.

Paul

 

OK I called Dan on the deadline day and he actually answered the phone!!!!!!!!!

He informed me that he had my cat done and packaged for shipping but that they were still waiting on a production run of tip inserts before he was going to ship. I asked him to ship the cat so I could get the car mobile again, which he agreed to do. The tip inserts will follow along at some future date....I know....don't hold my breath.

Quite the frustrating experience, and he may have sucked me in again if the cat doesn't arrive here tomorrow, but he has gained an extra weeks grace by actually answering the phone.

Those guys really have earned the very crappy rep they have for customer interaction.

I will certainly never use them again for anything that is time sensitive. If I actually need a part because the vehicle is down I will shop everywhere else first. If I just want to install a system some time in the future I might think about it again for their product is nice, if and when you ever get it.

I will post again when the cat arrives.............

Paul

 

Never fun getting the run around by incompetent people is it.

They learn eventually when their customer base disappears.

 

Dont fall for their crap. I know the guys at stebro read F-chat. They are more than likely going to take you for a ride past the deadline.

 

Your posts are always full of hope and optimism lol. Guess that's why I like reading them

 

Hopefully Paul you get some conclusion soon - your almost there.

good luck !

 

I have given thought to suing Stebro, since the owner promised to refund my money on a completely useless X-Pipe for my 2004 575 Maranello.

My Ferrari Mechanic, who used to work @ Ferrari of New York for years, and now has a shop in Calgary, refused to install such a substandard piece of exhaust..... he spoke with Dan at the time and Dan agreed to refund the cash for the P.O.S. part, but that was over a year ago.

Dan is very good at avoiding and not responding or returning calls or emails......you have my number buddy( and I am calling you a nice name since we are on a public forum).

Call me to prove to the people in the Ferrari community that you really do stand behind your products and workmanship, and make it right.

The next time I am in Ontario, I may come to visit your so called operation.........just to see if you really do exist.

 

Have you received shipping info with a tracking number for your cat yet?
When you do you may wish to call the shipping company to confirm they have actually received the package, shipping weight and that the shipping bill has been paid by the seller.

 

If I were you, I would have contacted VISA for a charge back refund. Under these situations, you have to evaluate probabilities of failures. Why bother wasting time and money with strings attached dealing with this guy with shady business practice? Since you may have pissed him off, what if he reads this forum and sets you up with a bait by discovering your last chance for your deadline? What if he sabotages your system and ships the defective item to you, you will be literally screwed and stuck with even more nightmares that lies ahead! This is exactly the reason why I don't deal with unknown companies like Stebros I don't even know, nor heard of before. I only deal with reputable brands like Tubi, Capristo, etc. on exclusive Ferrari brand by researching customer reviews. I am sure Tubi's system quality and sounds far superior than Stebro's. Why risk getting a no brand name that will ruin your precious investment?

 

Simply because they are cheaper. It never ceases to amaze me how many want to spend so much for a great car and later want to cheap out on the parts it needs even if it may compromise the integrity of the engine. Mind you I have seen the Stebro headers about 5 years ago and they are far better than fabspeed.

 

Ok, the cat arrived yesterday.

I took it down to Sphere Motorsports today and we dismantled the old cat and compared. The new cat has the WRONG mounting setup and the promised gaskets were not in with it. It won't mate with the header. It would have mated with the old muffler, but not with Stebro's hi-flow muffler. It requires a bevel cut into the muffler mounting flange, which is on the original, but not on the Stebro unit.

On top of that the build quality of the cat is so bad that I fear using it. There is a bunch of metal slag hanging down from both the O2 sensor threads and thermo threads. The final insult is that the core is a stock core, not the hi-flow unit that was advertised and that I was expecting.

I have now officially given up.

I ordered a fabspeed highflow unit today and will finish the car off on the weekend.

I am calling VISA in the morning [I have 5 days left until my deadline] and contesting the cat portion of the order. I am also going to ship the unit back to Dan.

Suffice it to say I will NEVER use these guys again for anything. Just too painful. They still owe me the tip inserts for the muffler. I will attempt to persevere to get those. I am really hoping that the car sounds nice without them.

I have to laugh though for I have a very nice Stebro stainless system for my Alfa Spider that has been up in my attic since I moved to Houston and needed to pass emissions. I had it on the car when I lived in Tulsa. Now that the car is over 25 years old, and no longer needs emission testing I can throw the stainless system back on. I ordered that system back in the 90's. It was delivered in a few days and the build quality was great. So the place really has gone downhill over the years.

Thanks for all the posts and moral support. I was not intentionally trying to go cheap on this car. The latest refurb is now up over $10K so I don't think I can be accused of that. I liked the Stebro systems on my Alfas and initially thought I was doing the right thing. Live and learn.

Once the rest of the story is told, i.e. after the saga of VISA and the tip inserts have subsided. I will post again.

I will get to listen to the system on the weekend or Monday at the latest and will let you know how it sounds.

Merry Christmas to you all,
Paul