Learjet 25 or 35?

You really need to do your self a favor, and go to your local private airport, find a Company that does Lear maintenance. They can walk you thru the service cost aspect of a Lear. Parts for the 25 series are becoming some what of a problem, as 35 series is a much better aircraft in regards to operating costs. You need to factor in that at today's fuel price, you can pay anywhere from $3.75 to 8.50 per gallon of Jet A. Your burn rate is probably 140-175 gal/ hour, depending on power settings. Hanger, insurance, service, unscheduled maintenance,de-icing, etc., you truly need to be prepared for the "real world" costs of ownership. After a honest introduction to the turbine world, will you feel that playing with Ferrari's are chump change, by comparison. As an example, a tiny little 3" computer style box fan that goes into the headliner , for the interior environmental system on a Cessna Citation is worth about $4.00 at Radio Shack, but you are obligated to use the Cessna part, or one identical, that is certified, for well over $1,000.00 , just for the part. Installation extra. Get my point? I'm not trying to dissuade you, just make you understand the JOYS of ownership! But, there's nothing like giving the " finger" to the commercial flying world! Good luck.
Gary Bobileff

 

The purchase price is probably the cheapest part.

Both are pretty old planes, the 35 is at least 18 years old now the 25 even more.

Engines are ridiculously expensive to rebuild or replace and are frequently timed out on planes I've seen for sale.

I've dreamed of owning a Learjet since Our Man Flint back in 1966.

 

Actually, the35's Garrett TFE 731's are reasonable to OH, between $175-$200k each. The GE's on the 25's are expensive, and seeing that the GE's are a non fan jet, no bypass design, REALLY burn the fuel. But, they're a " hot rod" with a great rate of climb! Fun. Small tube.
Gary Bobileff

 

check out this thread, lots of good info and I think somewhat relevant to your situation.

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=370969

 

That's about $200k or more per engine. If I recall correctly, Garrett's are to be overhauled every 4,000 hours. If you anticipate that you will use the aircraft 100 hours a year, with engines being timed out in 500 hours, that gives you 5 years, and with extensions, possibly 6 years. There are also many service life remaining engines on the market, for considerably less money than overhauls.
Gary Bobileff

 

100 hours a year isn't worth owning an airplane.

 

You have to remember, VRSURGEON's mission is about 2.0 - 2.5 hours/ each leg for visiting family . If utilization is 100 hours per year, that's about 20 trips a year. That's a ton of Family! VRSURGEON also didn't state where his Family is, possibly not near a commercial field? Or possibly several hours away from a commercial field? That all makes a big difference as to practicality, purpose, and just plain thrill factor! Not to mention the ability to file a flight plan, and go on a moment's notice. Flying yourself's a beautiful thing!
Gary Bobileff

 

Do you want to fly yourself?

 

What about a 31? Rusty Wallace just had his redone tip to tip at Stevens in Greenville SC. He said he has 11000 hours, and what stories!

 

Most 35s and 31s are on MSP, which is a fixed per hour price which covers all maintenance on the engines. As of a couple of years ago, it was $423/hour for both engines ("MSP Gold" covers the cost of removing and reinstalling the engine for major maintenance as well).

You want an airplane on MSP, because you won't be surprised by overhauls coming due, or anything like that, and you know that the previous owners had no reason to cheap out on engine maintenance.

The bad news about MSP is that you are required to pay for a minimum number of flight hours every year whether you fly them or not-- I think it's 150 hours.

If you were to get a 25 and only fly it 100 hours per year, that might make sense. A 25 will burn more gas, but if you get one with 500-600 hours remaining on the engines, you can fly it and figure on scrapping it once the engines are timed out. That would probably be cheaper than paying for MSP on a 31 or 35.

A 25 will burn more fuel, of course, but that's only part of the equation. It will also cost less to buy, and you won't have to pay MSP, but you will have to assume it will have only minimal residual value.

Parts are actually less of an issue with a 25 than you might think, because so many have been scrapped that you can usually find used parts. Yes, engine parts are an issue, but you are going to throw those away when you are done with it anyway, so you are taking a bet that the engines won't have any issues (and they are very, very reliable).

I really enjoyed my years of flying Lears, and sometimes wish I was still flying one.

 

If it's only you and one or two other people, you might also consider a really late model 24. The cabin is small, but the fuel burn is (amazingly) not that much more than a 35. If you seriously consider a 20 series, don't buy anything but the latest and greatest- a 25D or G, or a 24E or F.

Another airplane you might consider, which is also cheap to buy yet extremely versatile, is a Westwind. A Westwind can go nonstop coast to coast (well, west to east anyway), is cheap to buy, has a decent cabin... and, best of all, no calendar based maintenance!

Let me explain about that-- most airplanes have items which have to be inspected either every so many hours, or every so many days (months, years). To hit the hour limits, you usually need to fly 400-600 hours per year, so at 100 hours per year you are doing a lot of maintenance just on calendar limits.

The Westwind, to it's credit, doesn't have calendar items, only items due based on how much you fly. Thus, it may be much cheaper per hour if you are only going to fly 100 hours per year.

 

My Ferrari doesn't get me to the islands in 2 hours. My Airplane does. The reasons I own a Ferrari are exactly the opposite of the reasons I own an airplane.

100 hours a year and you're doing all the same maintenance as if you're flying 400 hours a year. Just charter. It's cheaper.

A PC12 will do all your trips non stop with no fuel stop and haul all your friends an family.

 

Lease......dont buy. I am in the business....been flipping large commercial jets to airlines for 15 years. If it floats or flies rent it.


Shane

 

I couldn't live not owning an airplane. But I fly 300+ hours a year. My plane is in for annual right now and I'm bored to death, stuck in Atlanta.

 

What is the advantage of leasing, for a GA airplane? Isn't it really simply a different way of financing it?

Also, what happens if the residual value stays flat, or even goes up, as it can on an older GA airplane? Alternatively, if the residual value is effectively zero, is there any difference between leasing and just getting a loan? (I'm thinking of the Lear 25 case).

I'm curious-- I know a little bit about the airline leasing business, and it seems like it would have very little relation to leasing a GA airplane to someone who flies 100 hours per year, but maybe I'm wrong?

 

fractional ownership... as Net Jets, Marquis Jet... lots of flexibility with aircraft... 1 or 2 of you or you can take 10 friends... best low time short term deal there is

 

I've never flown the Lears, but wouldn't an old 25 have a hard time with noise restrictions at most airports?

 

Not at most airports. There are a handful of southern California airports where it would be an issue, and maybe Teterboro (but I think as long as you abide by the curfew you are okay there), but that's about it.

And, the 24 has such superlative takeoff and climb performance that you can often climb to 1,000 feet by the end of the runway and pull the power way back, and get by a lot of restricted airports.

That said, it's been 5-6 years since I've flown a 20 series, so maybe things have changed.

 

Sorry I deal in large commercial jets....Boeing and Airbus. GA is likely a different more reasonable way to own an airplane. I am an A&P and would do my own work so it would work for me......but I dont fly.

 

Private jets are wonderful but go in with your eyes very open. As someone said the acquisition cost is the cheap part.

Me, I would not touch a Lear 25 just because of age. Even with a 35 look for as new as you can afford. Learn about cockpit equipment upgrades that are FAA mandated. Understand that age equals maintenance because things wear out.

Talk with JSSI and see what the rate for full maintenance coverage will cost. Even if you don't sign up with them it will be a good number to work on budgets with.

At 100 or so hours per year do charters or a Jet Card from one of the fractional folks. This may be a better way to start getting comfortable with what it really takes to operate a jet.

Jeff

 

You know something crazy? The last 25s were built in 1984 (I flew a 25G which was one of the very last ones). The last 35s were built around 1990-- not that much difference, surprisingly enough.

That said, a 35 is better in every way than a 25, except for climb performance.