Lazy start with warm engine?

Sort of reminds me of that joke...

Guy goes to the doctor and says, "Hey Doc, when I move my arm like this it hurts" and the doctor replies, "'well then stop doing that"



Ray

 

Heh, my father is a doc. Can't remember how many times I heard that as a kid

Also the "Well, that was stupid." was a line often heard. Usually preceded by me telling him that I fell off my bike or hurt myself lol.

Growing up with parents that work in a hospital or the like can be rough haha

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As suggested I've been using the built in volt meter on the left side of tachometer. Before pressing the start button with the key turned on you'll have to press the middle OK button to clear airbag alerts then left arrow until you see voltage meters.

My 2016 F12 has hot lazy starts within 30 minutes of restarts but never throws error codes.

Cold start not yet tested
Hot start voltage 11.8 to 12.2
Hot idle 13.3
Cruising 14.1


If you have problems please post your results.

 

I'm not sure what group size the F12 uses. On the 458, the basic two options are either the i48CX or the i48CS. The CS has twice the number of Lithium cells, therefore approximately twice the standby time. I ran the i48CS in my 458 and 488 with good luck. The CX version would be if you are more concerned with saving a few extra pounds on the track basically.

I'd look to see what group size the F12 uses, then look for a battery of that size in the Carbon Intensity line:

https://braillebattery.com/collections/intensity-carbon

Give Gary at Braille a call or email; he is super helpful.

Ray

 

Here's a break down of the voltage.

When the motor is running and/or you are cruising along, you are seeing the voltage output levels of the alternator, not the battery itself.

So if your voltage level drops under load to 11.8 volts, momentarily the car basically has a very weak battery.

Ray



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The F12 uses a Group 49, not a group 48.
In this size range, AntiGravity is the leader currently with their 80Ah H8/Group 49 battery.

Braille only offers two batteries not three.
They offer the B10049 which is an AGM, not a lithium and they offer the I49CS which is their 60ah lithium battery.

If I was to choose an AGM which is as much plug and play as can be, I'd choose the Braille B10049. If I was to choose a lithium, I'd choose the AntiGravity H8/Group 49 in the 80 Ah variant. The latter is what the Lusso has and it is brilliant.

The only reason why I say that the AntiGravity is less plug and play than an AGM, is just because it will need the following two items.

With a lithium battery you will need this charger.
https://antigravitybatteries.com/products/accessories/battery/chargers/ctek-lithium-us/

And you will need this adapter for the charger.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CTEK-Ferrari-Battery-Charger-Conditioner-Tender-Indicator-Adapter-Cable-4pin-/164903571745?var=0&mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=710-53481-19255-0&campid=5338268676&toolid=10044&customid=CjwKCAjwwqaGBhBKEiwAMk-FtL04jLMpJXSwxS9tA_VXszyPSKraDwdv4jCDowLHjqK8EvLAgwpXkhoC3oEQAvD_BwE

With the lithium charger and adapter, the system is as much plug and play as ti was from the factory.

 

i am watching the voltage BEFORE pushing the start button as well, that will be labeled hot start or cold start. hot start did show 11.8 at one point so it seems the heat is affecting battery voltage. other times i would say warm start around 12.2.

 

cold start, not driven for several hours, before pushing start button voltage reads 11.8 with air conditioning still on or 12.1 if i shut it off

 

The reason the Lithium batteries help a lot is two fold:

1. They run at slightly higher voltage, so the electronics continue to see the voltage they like even during heavy starting loads
2. Because Lithium batteries can deliver electrons faster with less resistance, usually you don't see as much voltage drop under a heavy draw (such as cranking the starter).

When I hook up the voltage meter on my pickup truck, I'll see if I can grab some readings off my G30 Lithium battery for you.

Ray

 

Dropping bekow 12v is indicative of a weak battery. Even 12.2 is low. Should not be lower than 12.5. I consider 12.3 the limit personally.

With a lithium it won't drop below 13.

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I just did an overnight cold start. No problems cranked fine and strong.
Air conditioning was still on.
Voltage said 11.7 before pressing start, then dipped down to 11 right after starting, and then in 2 seconds climbed up to 13.6 idling.

So even though cold starts are never a problem you think this indicates a bad battery which would have problems in hot starts?

 

Yes. I ran this by my brother who works for Bosch Automotive, and according to him a cold battery can read low, but after a moment it will get up in voltage. That being said, 13.2 is low as far as,I recall. From what I remember, the Lusso sat at 13.6 volts at idle with the OE battery. This was when it floated at 12.3 and barely had juice to close the boot lid.

Just for reference, let me check what the 488 does in the weekend. I can also look at the 812GTS on Tuesday. Both have AGM batteries and the one in the 812 is factory fresh

At least I can get a reading from starting and idle. The 812 cooks the battery as much as the F12.

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New F12 owner and pleased to report...in this damn 118 degree heat we are having...after a run involving 5 stops & starts over the course of an hour she fired up crisply every time. Sample size of 1, but encouraging to this new owner.

Car had been sitting on my NOCO trickle charger for about a week pre-today as well.

 

As mentioned previously, the F12 uses a group 49 battery, not a 48.

If you go the Braille lithium route, you need the I49CS.

Sit down when you read the price. The AntiGravity H8 is a thrird of the price and has more amps.

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Okay so the 488 sits at 12.6 when the car is on but not running. Drops to 12.3 when starting. Then it sits at 14.4 volts during warm-up and drops to 13.8 at idle. Turning the AC on changes nothing.

That is a healthy battery.

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he promptly forgot this information, forever.

 

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install lithium battery on it… will see what will happen but cold start is awesome better than agm


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I'm happy to say that my hot start issue is gone..with lithium battery...
I hope I won't damage the alternator..
some people said Lithium battery can kill the alternator due to diffirent charging resistant.. anyone have it in long time can confirm ?

 

Doesn't Pista have lithium battery and same alternator? I forgot

 

It won't. The battery is designed to work with a normal alternator. and the actual charging and balancing of the cells are controlled internally in the battery.

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so what happen I will see in the future?
I test drive about 30 miles, stop the engine.. waiting the battery get hot for 10 min then it immidiately start without any issue...So at least 1 of my problem gone.
I saw the alternator almost doesn't charge the battery when it full. It only charge when it low.
Would u please explain more for other people like us..
I asked ferrari dealer none of them ever heard about the Starter cable.. no bulletin for it. And the wiring harness cable is same as Production car.