Duane, I am not here to appease you or to seek your approval much less anyone else's, I am just sharing. I hope my reply does not peg your "curt" gauge. Merry Christmas, Gregg
Perfectly placed, as expected. You always act like you have no idea why people say the things they day whenever the statements are less than favorable towards you, as if it were random and you had no part in it. I never, in any way whatsoever, implied that your task here was to appease me "much less anyone else." A perfect example of the utterly meaningless platitudes that you throw around to take the focus off of the fact that you have not meaningfully responded to the statements written. That's the purpose of responding....to engage, or "share" as you put it. The sharing gets really short when a substantive response is required. Nothing ill against you Gregg, just "sharing" some observations. We all have our issues, it's just that you make a habit of displaying yours on the pages of this forum with regularity and great detail.
Observations are fine and expected so no harm and no foul. If you have a problem with my sharing you have the power to just move along and not reply. I'm certain I and others could find fault with your life so maybe you should remember the old saying and take it to heart.... Dont judge a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes. At least I am honest. People who criticize or look for fault in others are usually unhappy in their own life. Good day.
I'm sure people with more experience can offer guidance, I'm posing this as a question - if your previous dismissal was related to an alcohol issue, then would it be better (ie greatly improve your chances for success) to address this up-front when you interview? Given your lack of success with subsequent LEO applications, I'd suspect that nobody in the hiring process wants to bother to wait until they hear your side of the story once the previous dismissal is uncovered; they just say "Hmmm, drinking issues, he didn't mention them. Not worth the risk when we have other candidates. Next." Is there a way to proactively raise and address the issue and concerns, instead of just hoping 50/50 they won't find out? (What have you got to lose, given that no applications have passed that obstacle since?) How about during the interview, with an individual or panel, at the end when they say "any questions or comments?", you say something like "I need to bring to your attention a former issue. Years ago, I had a drinking problem, it was a factor in the termination of my previous LEO position. Since that time, I have recognized the seriousness and impact of this problem, and have addressed it by attending AA since (date), have it under control and have been sober since (date). I am confident that this will never be a problem for me again, and I would ask for the opportunity to prove myself. I am open to any sort of probation or random testing requirements that might help provide reassurance that this will not be a problem should you choose to hire me." Remember, I am not an employment lawyer, HR person, etc, so that's just speculation from me and someone who knows more may well say it's an incredibly stupid suggestion (ie don't blame me if it doesn't work)... but I think you need to consider something like that. Maybe you should consult an employment advisor, consultant, agency, lawyer, to ask how to address this issue proactively.
Gordon, I have been very up front when I was given an actual interview (usually departments just see the dishonorable discharge quashing any hope of an actual sit down) so their is no dishonesty on my part. I interviewed with a local sheriffs department just last month and was completely honest. The captain who met with me actually said "you got screwed and I have seen other officers do a lot worse yet still kept their job". He then told me that he would accept my application but it would not make it through the process because of my termination. As you mentioned I did say that I would be willing to accept a reserve position (a non-paying position) and that I would accept any probationary and random testing. The issue is that 99% of all police departments only see what they want to see. I was talking with a Constable in my neighborhood one day and mentioned my situation. He proceeded to tell me about another officer from his department that was pulled over and arrested, while off duty, for DUI and drug possession (he spilled his bag of cocaine all over his lap and down the drivers side of his vehicle trying to destroy evidence). The officer was sent to a rehab facility and after completing his 90 days was back on duty. I will see what happens in the next few months with the EEOC if I have a valid case worth pursuing. I only want my dishonorable overturned to a general discharge and nothing more.
Long way from down south but I hear the NYPD lets all sorts of characters in. Tons of great men and women on he NYPD, but plenty with worse pasts than you. Good luck. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Gregg, A few minutes using Google turned up the following: "In order to become licensed as a peace officer or county jailer in Texas, you must be licensed by the Texas Commission on Law Enforcement (TCOLE)." and; "If an officer is given a dishonorable discharge, the law enforcement agency which formerly employed him will send a written report (F5) of the dishonorable discharge to TCOLE, which will proceed to suspend or revoke the TCOLE certification." In your post yesterday, 12/17, you stated "I still hold and maintain a valid Texas peace officers license and I am respected in my local LEO community." Is your TCOLE license still valid? If not, it would appear your chances of LEO employment in Texas are toast. If your TCOLE license has been suspended or revoked, you may want to look into consulting with an attorney about the possibility of appealing the dishonorable discharge... In any event, hope things work out.
Hi Bill, Thank you for your reply. Bill I think you have received either false information regarding license suspensions or things have changed since I received my license which do not effect me, I am not sure. I have TCOLE on speed dial and often speak with them regarding courses and still take online courses which require a valid license ie PID number, I would not be able to use or log in to TCOLE without a valid license. In fact I just took course #3184 'Legislative Session Legal Updates' which would not be possible without a valid 'Texas Peace Officers License'. In fact I just registered for a class that is now a mandated/required training class which is #1510842 'Dogs And Police, Shoot Or Don't Shoot'. My training history, from start of the academy up to my last training course. You will see that I stay on top of my training which would not be possible with a license in good standing... Welcome GREGGORY TRAVIS to your TCOLE Account! Continuing Education TRAINING UNIT: 09/01/2015 - 08/31/2017 COURSE NUMBER NAME *=Meets Unit, Cycle or Certificate Mandate DATE HOURS INSTITUTION 3184 84th Legislative Session Legal Update* 12/09/2015 4 Gus George LEA TOTAL UNIT HOURS: 4 _________________________________________________________________________ TRAINING UNIT: 09/01/2013 - 08/31/2015 COURSE NUMBER NAME *=Meets Unit, Cycle or Certificate Mandate DATE HOURS INSTITUTION 3270 Human Trafficking* 01/17/2015 4 TCOLE Online 3920 Ethics in Law Enforcement* 11/20/2014 8 Gus George LEA 3183 83rd Legislative Session Legal Update* 04/30/2014 4 Gus George LEA 3939 Cultural Diversity* 03/28/2014 8 Gus George LEA 3232 Special Investigative Topics* 03/11/2014 8 Gus George LEA 3841 Crisis Intervention Training* 03/07/2014 16 Gus George LEA 1033 Chapter 33 Rule Overview Exam 03/02/2014 0 TCOLE Online TOTAL UNIT HOURS: 48 __________________________________________________________________________ TRAINING UNIT: 09/01/2011 - 08/31/2013 COURSE NUMBER NAME *=Meets Unit, Cycle or Certificate Mandate DATE HOURS INSTITUTION 3843 CIT-Update* 08/23/2013 8 Gus George LEA 3939 Cultural Diversity* 08/09/2013 8 Gus George LEA 3232 Special Investigative Topics* 08/06/2013 8 Gus George LEA 2106 Crime Scene Investigation (Intermediate)* 07/29/2013 32 Harris County Constable Pct. 3 3182 82nd Legislative Session Legal Update* 10/07/2011 8 University of Houston - Downtown LEA TOTAL UNIT HOURS: 64 __________________________________________________________________________ TRAINING UNIT: 09/01/2009 - 08/31/2011 COURSE NUMBER NAME *=Meets Unit, Cycle or Certificate Mandate DATE HOURS INSTITUTION 1000 Basic Peace Officer* 05/07/2010 700hrs University of Houston - Downtown LEA 2176 S.F.S.T. NHTSA 24hour Practitioner - BPOC 04/08/2010 0 University of Houston - Downtown LEA 2053 Baton (All) 03/06/2010 8 University of Houston - Downtown LEA 2054 Radar 02/06/2010 8 University of Houston - Downtown LEA 4021 Video Techniques 11/21/2009 8 University of Houston - Downtown LEA 3343 Less Lethal Chemical Weapons Training (OC, Mace, e 10/24/2009 4 University of Houston - Downtown LEA TOTAL CONTINUING EDUCATION HOURS: 844 __________________________________________________________________________________________________________ As you can see I am very serious and vigilant regarding my training and 99% of the time I take my classes at the Gus George Training Academy located at the Fort Bend County Sheriffs Department complex. I prefer in-class training because I get to be around people with the same mindset and I get to network. I hope this information helps, Gregg
You're missing the point Gregg. He is trying to get you to call and CONFIRM that your license is current. Don't assume that it is just because you can take a class. Get a person to look it up and verify it.
I don't know much about American law enforcement. In Canada, know enough and have resources to ask questions. My cousin is a corporal in the RCMP and so is her fiancé. One of her duties as a corporal is recruitment. They'll hire someone 50, they can serve enough time for an excellent pension. RCMP pensions are tax free. One thing, all police departments here won't hire an officer from another agency unless they are still employed with that agency. Rarely will they hire a unemployed former officer its considered very negative. An automatic disqualification from being hired is being dishonorably discharged or dismissed, including released for misconduct, from another police, military, or law enforcement organization. Here with your record you'd never be hired with any law enforcement agency. My cousin when I told her of this thread. Here they might give him a civilian job but police officer no way.
Dave, I got the jist of what he was asking. Since TCOLE is closed I decided to make a few calls. I call two LEO friends of mine, one is a Constable and the other is a Deputy Sheriff and I have also had my license verified, as active and current, by a Chief of Police who's family I have known for 35+yrs. I also met up with another Constable friend a few days back and showed him my CC model of my license and asked him to run it for fun and guess what.... Gregg is current and valid. Also I would not have been able to take any continuing education courses if my license was not valid and active. Also TCOLE would have notified me immediately if my license had been revoked or suspended (they are very diligent about such things). Take care.
Gregg, in the grand scheme of all of this over the years I don't think you've been listening. You need to quit posting about these supposed possibilities and post about something that actually happens. Something is not adding up. How many opportunities can arise and none of them pan out? There's always some excuse that comes up. The same goes for cars. Stop posting about your interest in an M3, 911, Z4, or whatever the flavor of the day is, and what until you are truly serious. Everyone here would love to see you achieve your goal, but at this point your goals are just words in an endless loop. So for your benefit you should focus on doing whatever you have to do to get this next opportunity, AND THEN post about your new job and new apartment and life in New Orleans. Best of luck.
Thanks. Women get promoted fast but they probably wanted her off the streets. They are very picky in their hiring and so are most Canadian law enforcement agencies. A dishonorable here non will even accept an application. Fight it quick if you can, it is probably the only way you'll be hired
Maybe this would be a great thing for Gregg. Getting hired as a civilian employee of a police department. That way, you are part of the police without the difficulty of getting re-hired as a sworn police officer. Just a thought. .
Gregg, Referencing your post #284, the following was taken from the TCOLE Handbook: §1701.4521. LICENSE SUSPENSION FOR OFFICER DISHONORABLY DISCHARGED The commission shall revoke the officer's license if the officer does not appeal the suspension before the 30th day after the date the officer is suspended. (emphasis added). My suggestion is that you communicate (preferably in writing) directly with TCOLE as to the current status of your license. If, in fact, your license has been revoked you'll save yourself a lot of grief trying to pursue the unobtainable.
From working in government IT, worked with Sherriff's office on web stuff, including internal document filing, applications, evidence sheets, charges, affidavit, disciplinary hearings, etc. for the department, lots of paperwork for officers. Appeals are very common because of standard procedure when an officer is accused of something in the field, that's common. Lot's and lots of paperwork, more than many jobs in that pay range, is just the norm. It looks like there wasn't an awareness of standard procedure and follow-up. I predict an "out-to-get-me" type scenario just around the corner. It's just difficult to get anything clear on the pattern of what actually happened, par for the course.
Bill, I will speak with TCOLE first thing Monday morning but allow me to offer a brief summary. I hope this summary will offer more insight and help those in doubt understand all this. 1. I broke for lunch just like any other day and called in my badge number along with code 10-7 (out of service). I do not call in a 10-8 (in service) until I have physically returned to my post 2. I was leaving my home and headed back to my post, albeit about 30 minutes late, and was confronted by the sheriff standing in my front yard. 3. I was accused of consuming alcohol (which was not true) and told to turn in my badge and uniform by 10am the next day which I did. 4. The 30 day limit on the appeal process is not something they teach a cadet in the police academy. I did not find this out until a former deputy of my department, who at the time had just been elected to a Constables position within the county, informed me almost two months later. 5. A peace officer who leaves their department in any capacity (honorably, generally, dishonorably or retiring) MUST, by state law, receive a copy of their F5 within 10 working days of their separation. The F5, which I finally received a copy of from TCOLE 2 months later, lets a person know about their rights concerning the appeal process. I was denied my appeal. The sheriff or his secretary mailed my F5 to my mothers home in Houston via certified mail (it was not signed for so it was not a valid delivery and was returned to the department which I verified with the department as well as USPS), when they knew my address and that I lived in town. Remember he did show up in my yard. You see how small clerical errors can bite you in the butt when dealing with very very important documents and situations? It was either a clerical mistake or the sheriff knew he would lose in my appeal or the sheriff used this tactic to drastically cut into my 30 day time limit for my appeal. 6. Why was I not issued a county vehicle when every other deputy was issued and drove a county "take home" vehicle? One of my co-workers lived one street over from me yet he drove a county vehicle. Why did the sheriff obtain two brand new Tahoe's on top of the other two other county issued vehicles he had? Why were there two county vehicles on the lot that only needed flats repaired and A/C service performed yet just collected dust? Why was I forced to use my POV and gas to go to work as well as work "extra jobs" in and around the entire county without receiving compensation? I never asked for compensation though. Why did the sheriff laugh in my face when I asked him about getting a county vehicle and say "I do not have any more vehicles available"? 7. Here is the real kicker, are you ready?? Why did the sheriff NOT issue me as required by state law my department ID, I was there for 6 months! Said ID card is to be issued within 10 days from date of hire, I still have the letter TCOLE mailed me recognizing my commision. I often drove into Waco on Saturdays to buy duty gear and to have lunch (yes I had to purchase my own duty clothing due to fitment even though there was a room overflowing with county issued uniforms) while armed yet with only a badge. I would tell the sheriff that I was going into Waco (where he sent his deputy's for their department ID cards) and would ask him about getting my ID and this is what I was told every time..."I will let you know when I think you are ready for a ID". The sheriff was actually breaking the law by not issuing me my ID within the time frame set by the state. I verified this via another friend/contact in law enforcement. 8. Why did the sheriff attempt to appeal my unemployment claim with TWC and lose? Why did the sheriff set the date and the time for a conference call between him and I and TWC only to be absent and unreachable when TWC and I tried to reach him on the date and time that he chose? Why did the sheriff lie to TWC telling them I had refused a FST? As mentioned by Duane paperwork is key in law enforcement so quite possibly that is the reason why my license is still valid simply because said sheriff did not comply with the required documents. Maybe he was found guilty of another wrongful termination by TCOLE because under his command his department is fraught with unexplainable terminations? As I have previously mentioned I do appreciate what I believe are positive comments/opinions and assistance. Also as mentioned I will talk with TCOLE first thing on Monday and I will relay to them everything I have openly disclosed to everyone here. Also as I have mentioned I just want to have the chance to move on and have my separation changed to a general discharge. If anyone has ever been wrongfully terminated from a job they would perform for free (loved) I think they would understand my situation but that is most likely just more wishful thinking. That's all. Stay tuned.
All of that matters not one bit. If you don't have a license you're not going to get hired. Nothing, I repeat NOTHING, else matters until that's verified by the actual agency who issues them and not "some officer you know". Once that is verified by the actual agency you can move on to step #2. It's just so simple, each step must be taken in order, but you always seem to ignore that and stir in some drama.
Dave, You and others have asked for more clarity and I have given said clarity wouldn't you agree? Could it be possible that since you who have no actual police training or actual experience that you are just turning a blind eye? You accuse me of "stirring in drama" yet is it possible that it is just you? Good luck.
My grandfather had a wise saying... Dont argue with stupid people. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
Nothing whatsoever to do with police training. Has everything to do with your selective disclosure of very important details. There must have been specific reasons related to you that prompted him to view you the way he did. You just assume that there must have been something wrong with him to treat you that way when there are no doubt even more details that haven't come out that would easily explain it. Car, badge, gear, those were his decisions to make, not yours. You assume he was wrong just because he wasn't acting the way you thought he should.
I would also assume even though your training did not provide guidance on how to appeal a suspension or dismissal that an employee handbook or a thorough individual would have contacted their employer or union immediately post suspension/dismissal to obtain information on how to appeal the decision. I believe there is a saying that ignorance of a law is not a defense or in this case recourse through the appeal process.
In the era of police unions, who hire counsel for their members, the whole story doesn't make sense...just like every story the OP posts (leaving a gun unattended around his brother's kid(s), cracking up a customer's car at an Fcar dealer, AA, every single "I'm going to buy XXXX car," etc). That point aside, the individual is responsible for knowing the rules and regs. You have no one to blame buy yourself for not appealing your discharge in time. In the adult world, that's caused personal responsibility. Your whole post above is a whining diatribe trying to put the blame on someone else. You sound like all the ****bag public defender clients I had who thought the world was out to get them. No, you just ****ed up. Own it. Dishonorable discharges are not just handed out because someone doesn't like you. You're an alcoholic, admittedly, and you just happened to be ****canned due to your alcohol consumption, but the accusations are false??? Come on. Mark
