LaFerrari replacement: v12, no hybrid, less power than SF90stradale? | FerrariChat

LaFerrari replacement: v12, no hybrid, less power than SF90stradale?

Discussion in '288GTO/F40/F50/Enzo/LaFerrari' started by Ale55andr0, Dec 24, 2019.

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  1. Ale55andr0

    Ale55andr0 Karting

    May 23, 2019
    228
    https://www.formulapassion.it/automoto/mondoauto/ferrari-suv-nel-2021-nuova-hypercar-nel-2022-473433.html

    Enrico Galliera, Ferrari Chief Marketing and Commercial Officer to Auto Express:

    “Sì, stiamo lavorando alla prossima hypercar, che arriverà dopo il 2022”, ha detto Enrico Galliera, aggiungendo che il futuro V12 che equipaggerà quest’auto non sarà più potente del powertrain presente sulla nuova SF90 Stradale ma che, anzi, l’intero progetto punterà sulla leggerezza più che sulla potenza, scelta che obbligherà a sviluppare un auto standard, senza alcun tipo di elettrificazione: “Elettrizzare una V12 significa creare, molto probabilmente, un’auto pesante e grande. Quindi l’elettrificazione dovrebbe idealmente essere abbinata a motori più piccoli “.


    (iEnglish rough translation :p)

    "Yes, we are working on the next hypercar, which will arrive after 2022 ", said Enrico Galliera, adding that the future V12 that will equip this car will not be more powerful than the powertrain present on the new SF90 Stradale but that the whole project will focus on lightness rather than power, a choice that will force you to develop a standard car, without any kind of electrification: “Electrifying a V12 means creating, most likely, a heavy and large car. So electrification should ideally be combined with smaller motors. "




    So...considering that the LaFerrari v12 hybrid produce 963hp (so not this far from the 1000hp of the SF90Stradale) that could possibly mean that in terms of power the new hypercar is a step behind even compared to LaFerrari? O_O
    Apart from that, I can't understand the weight philosophy "problem": the Aston Martin Valkyrie produce 1160hp with v12 AND hybrid onboard (!) and still, is VERY light (about 1030kg curb weight...). I was expecting a 1200hp monster at least, instead, at least on paper, the new hypercar car doesn't seem even to want compete with current and future (P1 replacement? AMG Project one?) rivals, unless it will be incredibly light, much, much more than rivals... but doesn't seem a credible hypothesis to me. I'm a bit confused and disappointed: for me the power in a ferrari engine is everything, instead, if all of that will be true, they're "playing alone" in their own field, like if they are afraid of a bit of competition, using the excuse "of weight and handling" as an explanation (still... the Aston Martin Valkyrie etc etc...)
     
  2. chrixxx

    chrixxx Formula Junior
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Mar 22, 2004
    971
    Lucerne
    Full Name:
    Chris
    there is a new V12 in the pipeline and at the end it is all about power to weight ratio. I'm expecting a light and powerfull LaFerrari Successor. I would be ok with 999HP and 900kg car weight! my 812 produces 800hp while my F138 Formula 1 produces only 750hp.... but guess which one is faster??!! (and the F1 will be faster than any of this hypercars...)
     
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  3. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

    Feb 16, 2011
    7,658
    Bournemouth, UK
    Seems to me that Galliera is just stirring the pot. According to an earlier release by Leiters, who is an engineer unlike Galliera, the LaFerrari's successor will be due after 2023 and only when the desired technology will have matured.
     
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  4. Ale55andr0

    Ale55andr0 Karting

    May 23, 2019
    228
    #4 Ale55andr0, Dec 24, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2019

    If they say that the car will have less power than the sf90 I highly doubt that they mean by one single horse XD
    Ferrari's most powerful naturally aspirated engine can hit 860hp (fxxk), even considering the technological evolutions and development it already have a very high specific power... I can't really figure out how they can find many extra horses...actually, they already said that is very difficult especially considering the emission laws...even "only" 900hp appear very optimistic to me

    My two cents


    @REALZEUS

    I think that a market manager must knows which are the paper-specs of the products that "he sells", even if he's not the engineer who defined them, don't you think? ;)
     
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  5. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

    Feb 16, 2011
    7,658
    Bournemouth, UK
    That's because the engine is basically an 18 year old design (started life in the Enzo). If Cosworth can produce a 1000 HP 6.5 litre V12, surely Ferrari can too.


    Indeed, but as I said it is likely a Christmas "stirring of the pit". Ferrari doesn't really announce their plans 2-3 years beforehand. May I remind you of the Milechilli, rumoured as an Enzo successor, which never materialised and we eventually got the (divine) LaFerrari instead. Seems like the same lightweight marketing plot to me.
     
  6. Ale55andr0

    Ale55andr0 Karting

    May 23, 2019
    228
    the Cosworth v12 produces 1000+ hp due to the hybrid support...and anyway, Galliera said that the new hypercar will have less hp than sf90 stradale, that mean less than 1000, so what Cosworth (or Ferrari..) can or can't do doesn't change this statement :/
    By the way, we will see.
     
  7. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

    Feb 16, 2011
    7,658
    Bournemouth, UK
    The Cosworth V12 produces 1000 HP on its own. It produces 1160 BHP with the KERS.

    As you said, we will see. I don't give credit to a statement made 3-4 years before the car is launched...
     
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  8. maha

    maha F1 Rookie

    Mar 17, 2014
    3,390
    dinajpur, bangladesh
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    mahmud
    that's how the laferrari rumors were started back in 2009-10. and officially it was told that it would feature a v8..

    Sports Cars of the Future: 2012 Ferrari F70

    Ferrari's new mid-engine supercar is slated to succeed the mighty Enzo.
    BY MIKE MONTICELLO
    MAR 16, 2010

    Image Unavailable, Please Login


    has ambitious goals for its successor to the mighty : Rumored to be called the F70, this mid-engine supercar will have to do nothing less than substantially outperform the Enzo, while being considerably more efficient to comply with ever-tougher emissions standards. As such, it will have to do more with less. Less weight, less cylinders...but one thing will be more: the price. It's said that when the F70 goes on sale in 2012, it could very well cost over $1 million.

    Using knowledge gleaned from its Formula 1 race machines, the -based track car, the FXX Mille-Chili lightweight concept, the and the road machine, Ferrari has much at its disposal. The Mille-Chili from 2007 gave a clear indication of Ferrari's new path to achieving ultimate performance: a much lighter vehicle through greater use of exotic materials such as carbon fiber. Incidentally, "mille chili" refers to 1000 kilograms (about 2200 lb.), the target weight for the F70.

    Unlike the naturally aspirated V-12-powered Enzo and the F50 before that, the latest word is that the F70 will switch back to a twin-turbo V-8 as seen in the F40. Only the F70's direct-injected engine will use the very latest technologies to eliminate turbo lag, achieve 670–700 bhp yet return excellent (for a Ferrari) fuel mileage and low emissions (a hybrid powertrain is unlikely for the F70, due to the system's inherent added weight). The F70 should reach 60 mph in less than 3 seconds. The target top speed of over 230 mph is reached with an array of drag-reducing active aerodynamic features.
     
  9. Ale55andr0

    Ale55andr0 Karting

    May 23, 2019
    228
    yes, but that rumor didn't came directly from a Ferrari manager statement... But as I already said, a this point we can only wait and see
     
  10. Ferrari 360 CS

    Ferrari 360 CS F1 Veteran

    Dec 4, 2004
    6,707
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    Jacques
    Great! Less power, lighter weight! Now we simply need a Dino built along the same lines.
     
  11. Whisky

    Whisky Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 27, 2006
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    Upper Great Plains
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    The original Fernando
    And yet we wonder why the F1 team isn't doing so hot.
     
  12. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Veteran

    Jun 5, 2009
    7,281
    Le caylar (France)
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    mathieu Jeantet
    Guess the new V12 will be ready for the 812SF replacement and the next hypercar.
    Dream is not over yet !
     
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  13. NürScud

    NürScud F1 Veteran

    Nov 3, 2012
    7,273
    I'm waiting for something really close to the AM Valkyrie, from the designing point of view.
     
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  14. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Veteran

    Jun 5, 2009
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    mathieu Jeantet
    I don't think so
    Too LMP2 for road use
     
  15. amenasce

    amenasce Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Wait, so a N/A V12 with 900ish HP and no battery so around 1300kgs? AWESOME
     
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  16. RedRacer

    RedRacer Formula Junior
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    So more carbon? Lighter engine parts? I wonder...
     
  17. Interceptor

    Interceptor Karting

    Apr 10, 2009
    88
    A V12 turbo engine why not option?
     
  18. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

    Feb 16, 2011
    7,658
    Bournemouth, UK
    Hopefully not. There is nothing like a high revving, N/A V12.
     
  19. Interceptor

    Interceptor Karting

    Apr 10, 2009
    88
    I understand, but if the goal is better power to weight ratio, a big turbo engine plus 200 / 300 hp than N/A engine. Or would it add more weight and bigger cooling system?
     
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  20. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

    Feb 16, 2011
    7,658
    Bournemouth, UK
    We don't really know the goals yet. Best possible performance, that's a dead certain. I find it very hard that in this age of hybridisation they will ditch the hybrid system. But there is more to just performance, such as excitement and that's a good reason to keep the N/A V12. Anyway, we shall see...
     
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  21. jpalmito

    jpalmito F1 Veteran

    Jun 5, 2009
    7,281
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    mathieu Jeantet
    Or maybe they realized a full hybridized range is a long term non sense for them ( and for the automotive industry either)
    Seems like lightness is the new mantra and that's a good thing
     
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  22. Therry

    Therry Karting

    May 26, 2010
    102
    if that true it's great :D no turbo :D no electric :D
     
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  23. Ale55andr0

    Ale55andr0 Karting

    May 23, 2019
    228
    #23 Ale55andr0, Dec 30, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2019
    because sometimes people in Ferrari loves no-sense, auto-imposed dogma and be beaten by a crappy nissan engine on the straight XD (If Enzo were still alive today, for sure would kick someone @ss...)
    A Ferrari V12 turbo could be only the pure expression of GLORY!!!



    that's the reason that explain why the most iconic Ferrari car, the F40 (that sounds great!) have a turbo engine, and not even 12 cylinders :D





    Apart from that, with new emissions/noise level laws you can forget the old scream of the v12... it will be muzzeld someway for sure, so this "stubbornness" for n/a v12 imho have no sense, except to go slower than others...-_-'




    and (way) less power, yeahyyyyyyy :D:D:D
     
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  24. Therry

    Therry Karting

    May 26, 2010
    102
    wut? this car will have around 900hp from NA V12, how you can say that's not a lot of power? great sound of V12 plus great track performance cuz low weight, this will be best modern hypercar

    mclaren team is now confused :D
     
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  25. Interceptor

    Interceptor Karting

    Apr 10, 2009
    88
    I think Ferrari want with this car go to wec hyper class. This class rule is 750hp maximum.
    i hope the FIA dont change rules to 2023/2024, than in 1986 deleted the group B before F40 racing version debut or BPR series so F50GT dont debut in 1997.
     
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