Kevlar Clutch Test Results for F355 | FerrariChat

Kevlar Clutch Test Results for F355

Discussion in '348/355' started by Aeroengineman, Jan 10, 2008.

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  1. Aeroengineman

    Aeroengineman Formula Junior

    Oct 5, 2003
    897
    Maple Valley, WA
    Full Name:
    Dave Tegeler
    #1 Aeroengineman, Jan 10, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    After 15 months and 6000 miles the results are in. I did an inspection dissasembly of my Kevlar clutch that I installed. I could see no sign of wear on either the clutch or the pressure plate (which was new 6000 miles ago). The flywheel was reground also 6000 miles ago and you can still see the grind marks on the surface with no smothing of the grinding marks. The brownish surface was not there but that appears to be a rusty residue. The clutch wheel its self is the same thickness as we had at installation. While I never pop the clutch, I don't baby it either as most of my buddys will confirm.

    Based on these results, I would recommend to anybody to immediately remove the OEM clutch disk and have it resurfaced in Kevlar. The OEM clutch disk leaves burn pits in these $6000 flywheels and pressure plates after the same number of miles. Don't wait until your OEM clutch is gone or you will be stareing at $6000 for the mating parts.

    The theory behind the good results rests in the fact that the OEM clutch material stores heat and the copper shards in the burnt wood compound the OEM uses actually gets so hot it burns the steel and creates "hard iron crystals" which distroys the part. The kevlar clutch material dissapates the heat so this doesn't happen.
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  2. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    May 29, 2001
    18,026
    USA
    Awesome, thanks for posting Dave!
     
  3. UConn Husky

    UConn Husky F1 Rookie

    Nov 11, 2006
    4,424
    CT
    Full Name:
    Jay
    excellent info, thanks for sharing! Who did your Kevlar resurfacing?
     
  4. Aeroengineman

    Aeroengineman Formula Junior

    Oct 5, 2003
    897
    Maple Valley, WA
    Full Name:
    Dave Tegeler
    It was done by a company in Florida - But I don't know their name, JH355 had it done for me - he actually was kind enough to grind the flywheel on one of his expensive NC machines also. I understand there are several places on the Web that advertize this.
     
  5. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

    May 21, 2005
    72,740
    Vegas+Alabama
    Full Name:
    Mr. Sideways
    Nice firsthand info (rather than internet rumor). Thanks!
     
  6. TheOnlyest

    TheOnlyest Formula 3

    Sep 25, 2007
    1,686
    Las Vegas Nevada, US
    Full Name:
    Steve
    My 348 has a kevlar clutch disc... the mechanic who did it told me I should not have to replace the clutch for at least 10 years or 50K miles.
    The drawback I see compared to a typical clutch is... theres very little to no transition (slip) when the clutch is gradually engaged, when the clutch disc hits the pressure plate, ITS ON! Its almost concerning me as possibly overstressing the crank or other parts of the drivetrain & tranny.
     
  7. Aeroengineman

    Aeroengineman Formula Junior

    Oct 5, 2003
    897
    Maple Valley, WA
    Full Name:
    Dave Tegeler
    Mine experience has been one of a silky smooth engagement just like the OEM - The Ferrari Dealer drove it and couldn't believe it as their experience was more like yours when they tried it. There have been two cars converted in the Seattle area. The only common thread is that the flywheels were ground (not machined) perfectly to a very smooth surface (see how mine shines like a mirror). The new surface of the KEVLAR is like a scotch bright pad and I suspect when it comes in contact with a machined rather than a ground surface, the fibers would grab. This is a guess a this point - but it may be the key difference.
     
  8. gothspeed

    gothspeed F1 World Champ

    May 26, 2006
    10,244
    U.S.A.
    Full Name:
    goth
    I will have to concur with aeroengineman...... I have had nothing but good experience with kevlar discs in the past on my p-cars..... :)!!!

    My discs were redone by 'centerforce' along with a pressure plate rebuild and balance!
     
  9. jh355

    jh355 Formula Junior

    Feb 12, 2004
    424
    Halluci-Nation
    Full Name:
    Craven Morehead
    Thanks for the love,

    The key to a successful Kevlar clutches life is using an SC 80 grit stone when grinding the flywheel. From Valeo, they are turn down using a single point tool, but after repeated heat cycles, the flywheel is too hard to use a SP carbide tool, and must be ground. It’s quite an extensive process to do it correctly, as you can only take .0002” off per pass. My experience with the 355 has taught me that it usually requires somewhere in the .008” to .015” total material removal to smooth the surface imperfections out.

    Kevlar has a much higher coefficient of friction than an organic lining material, which is why you generally have a longer lived part; more of the energy is transferred to the wheels rather than making heat. Some concerns over what this extra “grip” will do to the related drive train components is valid, but can easily be addressed with a smoother flywheel (i.e 80 grit), and in the 355 / 348 DM flywheel absorbing the shock load.

    Overall, the Kevlar setup is a better way to go, but the optimal install would be to purchase a new Flywheel / pressure plate combination, and have the flywheel immediately surfaced .004” as prescribed above. What this accomplishes is the best overall combination from the beginning of the components life. Preparing the components in this fashion could quite conceivably be a combination for a 60,000 plus mile clutch.

    What would be interesting is to Dyno test before and after to see if there was any appreciable increase.

    J
     
  10. jh355

    jh355 Formula Junior

    Feb 12, 2004
    424
    Halluci-Nation
    Full Name:
    Craven Morehead
    Another point worth mentioning is these parts were not cleaned prior to the photos. There doesn’t appear to be any dusting from the clutch wearing down. A completely new set of benefits to the bearings and other power train components.

    J
     
  11. rynoshark

    rynoshark Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 6, 2004
    1,031
    Pacific Northwest
    Thanks again for all the great info Dave T! Another project added to my 355 backlog ;)
     
  12. Gershwin

    Gershwin F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 21, 2005
    6,414
    Kentucky
    I installed a Kevlar clutch on my F355 2 years ago and after several thousand miles I haven't a complaint.
     
  13. ExcelsiorZ

    ExcelsiorZ Formula 3
    BANNED

    Nov 7, 2003
    1,267
    Beverly Hills
    What's the cost for the kevlar clutch kit?
     
  14. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    28,538
    socal

    EXCELLENT! Did you keep the marcel or eliminate it?
     
  15. notoboy

    notoboy F1 Rookie

    Jul 8, 2003
    2,531
    NYC
    Full Name:
    David
    I need a new clutch this summer, so if there is any way that you can find and post the company (and contact info) that did yours, I/we would would be very grateful!

    Although this sounds like an awesome alternative to the OE part, I wouldn't get something like this done unless it were from a place that is pre-screened at the very least by another Ferrari owner or friend.

    Thanks!
    David
     
  16. hank sound

    hank sound F1 Veteran

    Jan 31, 2004
    5,953
    Burbank, CA
    Full Name:
    Hank Garfield
    What perfect timing, right? :)
     
  17. ernie

    ernie Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Nov 19, 2001
    22,611
    The Brickyard
    Full Name:
    The Bad Guy
    OUTSTANDING stuff! Thanks for sharing the info.
     
  18. PassionIsFerrari

    PassionIsFerrari Formula 3

    Aug 15, 2004
    2,454
    Great info....Can someone supply the name of the place that can make kevlar clutch plates and resurface the flywheels correctly?
     
  19. mihakrapez

    mihakrapez Karting

    Aug 16, 2007
    130
    Slovenia-Europe
    Full Name:
    Miha

    I do that. My company is located in EUROPE-SLOVENIA it costs 120€+Vat and shipping if anyone is interested (can also ship to USA).
    www.sinter.si

    Cheers
     
  20. mihakrapez

    mihakrapez Karting

    Aug 16, 2007
    130
    Slovenia-Europe
    Full Name:
    Miha
    Here is one pic.
    [​IMG]

    This one is made with different procedure and a bit different compound than the one you had tested. That is how you squeeze some extra friction coefficient oft of it.
    (With this clutch you don’t have to modify flywheel or any other parts. You just put it in and go)

    We also produce these clutches for European FIA historic cup.

    Cheers,
    Michael
     
  21. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

    May 21, 2005
    72,740
    Vegas+Alabama
    Full Name:
    Mr. Sideways
    #21 No Doubt, Apr 8, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017

    Do I need to send you a worn-out Ferrari 348 clutch and some money to get that beauty?

    I want it! Walk me through the steps that I need to travel to get it, please.
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  22. gothspeed

    gothspeed F1 World Champ

    May 26, 2006
    10,244
    U.S.A.
    Full Name:
    goth
    +1............... I have an old 355 disc that needs this stuff too :)!!!
     
  23. PassionIsFerrari

    PassionIsFerrari Formula 3

    Aug 15, 2004
    2,454
  24. mihakrapez

    mihakrapez Karting

    Aug 16, 2007
    130
    Slovenia-Europe
    Full Name:
    Miha
    Ok.
    I think that the best way would be if you contact our US dealer. He is selling our KARTING brake pads in USA. I phoned him and explained the situation. So you are welcome to contact him and he will be happy to help. This is the best way, because we are sending him brake pads very often and he has a lot of experience with importing the goods to USA. You will need to ship old units to his company and he will organize renewal with us (So you won’t have to worry about custom papers and import taxes). In case you want, you can also do it directly with us, but he told me that it is quite expensive to get the goods true customs.

    Mr. Adam Price
    International Karting Products
    3830 E Huntington Dr.
    Suite 15
    Flagstaff, Az. 86004
    Phone: 928-527-9490
    Fax: 928-527-9702
    E-Mail: [email protected]

    We also produce paddle clutches for racing.
    (In this case we also need used clutch)
    PIC:

    [​IMG]
     
  25. Marcelo0131

    Marcelo0131 Karting

    Oct 14, 2009
    90
    Stanton, CA.
    Full Name:
    Marcelo
    Want to know info on Kevlar clutch on a 355 F1.
    Recomended on a F1 system?
    Where to send the disc and related parts for resurfacing and grinding and balancing..
    I'm located in So ca. area, anyone local? Turnaround? Want to time it during a major, so i have about 4-5 days..
     

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