KE Jetronic guide | FerrariChat

KE Jetronic guide

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by jkg2101, Oct 1, 2024.

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  1. jkg2101

    jkg2101 Karting

    Jan 25, 2015
    172
    New York
    Hello - i am currently looking to get a testarossa, and as a do-it-myself person, I would like to learn more about the fuel injection system on these cars. I have read the Bosch manual on the K Jetronic system from the 308's, and I understand that system well, but i can not find any online references or summaries of how the TR system works. Anyone have any suggestions?

    the K Jetronic system is interesting, but really limited in any adjustability. Hard to believe it really is any more efficient or effective than an old-school carburetor. I get how it might be an improvement over Webers, which may be more fickle, but I am probably not realizing the nuances.

    justin
     
  2. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    36,754
    Cowboy Capitol of the World
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall
    Carbs at best give you kind of an approximation of the correct fuel mixture if the air density is right. Then every time you move the throttle plate it changes.
    Fuel injection, even one as simple as CIS is vastly more precise ALL THE TIME.

    Thats why carbs went the way of the dinosaur.
     
  3. jkg2101

    jkg2101 Karting

    Jan 25, 2015
    172
    New York
    interesting perspective. from what I understand, with the standard k system, when the throttle is suddenly opened, the plate/diaphragm in the mixture control unit (I think that is the correct terminology) opens, overshoots, and then bounces back. this overshooting is the equivalent of the accelerator pump on a carb. does not seem so precise to me, but again, i am no expert for sure!

    anyway, no one would have gone to FI, even simple mechanical FI, if it wasnt better for emissions in the early 1980s. and computer control of course then took over!

    anyway, back on topic, appreciate any advice for KE Jetronic explanations/guides

    Justin!
     
  4. jkg2101

    jkg2101 Karting

    Jan 25, 2015
    172
    New York
  5. montagna

    montagna Rookie

    Mar 14, 2014
    16
    Phoenix, Arizona, USA
    Full Name:
    Ross
    "Bosch Fuel Injection and Engine Management" by Charles O. Probst, published by Bentley. Readily available from Amazon or other booksellers. It has very clear and detailed explanations of all types of K-Jetronic systems, including KE-Jetronic.
     
  6. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,509
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
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    Steve Magnusson
    #6 Steve Magnusson, Oct 1, 2024
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2024
    This link will get your F's write-up for how Bosch KE-Jetronic with Lambda was/is implemented on US version TR:

    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/nnb2n9bnal3zbpmvyo972/Workshop-Manual-Testarossa-Supplement-Catalytic-Converter-D61-D106.pdf?rlkey=fmcxx9icmokt632mz2jg1c8hv&st=jxhdje2j&dl=0

    This link will get you a Bosch general write-up on KE-Jetronic (but it has many "optional" features of KE-Jetronic that weren't implemented on TR):

    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/assdvaj7b0nq7h4gyx7du/Bosch-KE-Jetronic-Manual.pdf?rlkey=9kl5p78ghaqdaaut5vd2hm7vy&st=xq1f4weh&dl=0

    My take on the Bosch CIS systems (and how they evolved over time) is:

    Bosch K-Jetronic without Lambda is brilliant in its simplicity. No electronic ECU with only one iffy thermo-mechanical gizmo (the WUR), but not "clean" enough to meet emissions.

    Bosch K-Jet with Lambda has lower emissions but is the most over-complicated of the group as it has a WUR, an electronic ECU, and a frequency valve.

    The got smarter with KE-Jetronic (both with and without Lambda) as they figured out they didn't need a WUR so it only has an electronic ECU and EHA. However, the nominal EHA current is 10mA and swings from 0 ma (lean) to 20 mA (rich) so when the Protection Relay system fails the system goes lean and engine barely runs if at all).

    They got even smarter on KE3-Jetronic as they changed the EHA current to nominally be 0 mA and swings from -10mA (lean) to +10mA (rich) -- so when the Protection Relay system fails the engine still runs OK. (They also raised all the various pressures which improves he overall efficiency of the system).
     
  7. jkg2101

    jkg2101 Karting

    Jan 25, 2015
    172
    New York
    Wow Steve. That’s really helpful and interesting

    and thanks Montagna for that book rec

    has anyone figured out how to use a modern computer or engine control unit to read the ke jetronic sensors and command the fuel delivery unit, idle valves and the rest of it? Seems like it would be do able. And maybe helpful if these old ECUs start to fail.
     
  8. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 11, 2001
    26,509
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    Steve Magnusson
    Not AFAIK. People have converted from CIS to an EFI systems, but it's a huge modification and amount of work (and rarely done in a way that I would call "undetectable to the layman").
     
    Rifledriver and turbo-joe like this.
  9. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
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    When you say CIS was not clean enough to meet emissions? Well its the only reason many of those cars could be sold for several years. Emission standards got more strict. Then it was not clean enough but as good as many older systems were they wont pass now.
     
  10. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,509
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
    Full Name:
    Steve Magnusson
    No question that K-Jet without Lambda was light-years better than a carburetor for emissions. I meant what you wrote -- it was darn good, but not good enough for what emission standards soon became (especially with the addition of cold-running/cold start-up emission specs).
     
    turbo-joe likes this.
  11. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
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    That still a moving target, almost 50 years later.
     
  12. Dr Tommy Cosgrove

    Dr Tommy Cosgrove Three Time F1 World Champ
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    May 4, 2001
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    Tommy
    It was a changeover at the time by the factory to meet emissions in other markets.
     
  13. Dr Tommy Cosgrove

    Dr Tommy Cosgrove Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    May 4, 2001
    36,228
    Birmingham, AL
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    K-Jet is also unbelievably dependable. Of the 4 different VW's I have owned (and still own two) going back to 1985 and used as daily transportation for a tad over 20 years, it was the only part of the cars I never had to touch. Ever.

    Same with my QV. 27 years and never an issue with it.
     
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