KE-Jet Residual Pressure | FerrariChat

KE-Jet Residual Pressure

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by jgmblair, Apr 29, 2017.

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  1. jgmblair

    jgmblair Formula Junior
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    May 27, 2010
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    Jeff Blair
    Having an issue with the residual pressure on the 1-6 bank, I understand it should be 38psi after running the pumps and it should remain at this pressure for at least 20 minutes, my pressure drops to 10 psi within 20 minutes. The 7-12 bank maintains this pressure and did so overnight. What I have done so far;

    1. Check system pressure 78 psi both banks (fuel pumps are new, so I'm assuming the check valve will be operational)
    2. Checked for external leaks at all connections no leaks noted
    3. Checked injectors on 1-6 bank no leaks found
    4. Checked sensor plate measures approximatley 2mm free play
    5. Checked accumulators no leaks found

    From here I decided to swap the fuel pressure regulators and will leave this overnight.

    Questions.

    1. What is the likelihood of a pressure regulator failure? Best I can tell they are original
    2. Would a "leaky" regulator have any affect on the fuel delivery and performance?

    Cheers
     
  2. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 11, 2001
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    Hasn't been reported as a common failure, but is possible. Even though your check valves are new, the possibility a new one is bad isn't zero either. You've got the right approach -- if the problem follows the pressure regulator = replace it. If the problem doesn't follow it = has to be something else.

    No, it would not. During normal operation, valve 6 (see fig 56, page D78 in the TR WSM) is open (i.e., it is leaking a lot). At shutoff, valve 6 is supposed to fully close.
     
  3. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
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    to eliminate some you first may change the left pressure valve to the right side and otherwise.
    during operation the pressure always is ok? then you only may get problems when starting.
     
  4. jgmblair

    jgmblair Formula Junior
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    #4 jgmblair, Apr 30, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Not sure what you mean by "pressure valve" Romano

    Let it sit overnight and pressure dropped again so swapped gauge to the 7-12 bank and it holds the pressure at 39 psi with no leak down. So where to go next? Where else could the system lose pressure? I guess I could swap the fuel pumps as a next step but I'm suspecting they are fine as they are brand new.
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  5. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
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    pressure valve or pressure regulator:

    have a look here:
    https://www.ricambiamerica.com/car-diagrams/ferrari/v12/testarossa-group/testarossa-1987/fuel-distributors-lines-ke-jetronic-system.html?mode=split
    loation number 12, part number 125136
    this is a bosch part, same as in the mercedes 500 SE
    the bosch number is stamped on the housing. if not working right go to a bosch dealer and tell him you need this part. but don´t tell him it is for a F. then he will kust raise the price as all other always do :( :( :(

    before switching the fule pumps I would switch the regulators - much easier to do

    I think I still have here 2 in stock ( used ) but not sure, have to look if you need
     
  6. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    One point is that the shutoff sealing doesn't need to be perfect (although it often is) -- that's why there's also a time interval given in the spec with the idea being that, after that much time, things will have cooled off enough such that the fuel in the lines won't vaporize even if the pressure has dropped some. (i.e., looking for perfect sealing overnight is an unneeded over-requirement).

    The only other place in the system that there is an "intentional valve" that needs to be closed at shutoff to retain the pressure is the cold start injectors -- have you checked that for leaks? Not sure that you'll have any other choice but to swap the fuel pumps (with their check valve) if it's not the pressure regulator nor cold start injector on that bank. It will also give you a chance to ensure there are no leaks in that area (gasoline is so volatile that a small leak is often never a liquid that reaches the ground). Good hunting!
     
  7. jgmblair

    jgmblair Formula Junior
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    #7 jgmblair, May 1, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Well I think I may have found the issue. Had a great conversation with Larry Fletcher this morning from CIS Flowtech and he explained the difficulty in setting the proper EHA current in a testarossa due to the positioning of it on the fuel distributor. He suggested removing them and sending them to him so he could set them up properly. I removed the 1-6 fuel distributor which was the side I was noticing was losing its pressure prematurely and found the control plunger was stuck and would not fully close, after playing with it for a few seconds it freed itself up and had similar movement to the 7-12 distributor. I would assume if the plunger was not fully closing then fuel would continue to make its way back through the fuel pressure regulator and ultimately back to the fuel tank? I wonder if I had of clamped off the rubber fuel return line from the pressure regulator to the fuel tank if that would have maintained the pressure in the system?

    I will ship these off to Larry and update the thread when I get things back together. Thanks for the input.
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  8. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

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    if this would be the reason then the fuel will not get over the fuel pressure regulator back into the fuel tank. then the fuel would go over the injectors into the cylinders/intake manifolds.

    but I think now you send both out. so too late to test some more.

    let us know when you get them back what have been done and how much you payed for and of course if after then all is ok what I don´t think so. I still believe the pressure valve one side is not working fine. you not told us that you checked those?
     
  9. jgmblair

    jgmblair Formula Junior
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    Yes Romano I swapped these in my first post and left it overnight. There was no change, the 1-6 bank still lost pressure. After talking to Larry this morning he said it is normal for the pressure to bleed off over time but you want to watch how much time it takes. As Steve had mentioned earlier there is a normal drop to 2.4 - 3 bar and that should stay steady for about 20 minutes from what I've been told.

    I will update this thread once I get by FD's back from Larry.

    Cheers
     
  10. jgmblair

    jgmblair Formula Junior
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    Have been slowly putting things back together after having my FD's rebuilt by CIS Flowtech, Larry is a great guy, very helpful. Still having an issue with the 1-6 bank and car still runs a bit rough at both cold and warm idle. I did end up finding a small fuel leak in the 14 mm return line between the fuel distributor and the pressure regulator (#1 in the image.) I'm guessing this is what caused the loss of residual pressure when left over a period of time? There was quite a bit of fuel, I would say at least an ounce pooled on the block when I checked this morning.
    Could this leak cause an issue with the fuel delivery to the 1-6 bank and be causing some of the rough running on that side?

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  11. wda24729

    wda24729 Formula 3

    Sep 22, 2014
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    Hi Jeff, tried to answer your email as best I could, but for other peoples benefit I will post up my thoughts.

    If you have a look at my CIS thread, (all courtesy of Steve Magnussan!) you will need to initially set the sensor plate to positions A, B and C.

    After that I had to get someone in with a set of vacuum gauges to accurately set up the mixtures etc.

    20170920_110531.jpg

    This I understand was carried out with throttle body screws fully in, and once both banks were set the throttle bodies were them adjusted for idle.

    I didn't quite fully understand what was going on, but there was lots of listening and feeling going on at the same time, but ultimately it runs extremely smooth now.
     

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  12. ago car nut

    ago car nut F1 Veteran
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    I believe the vacuum gauges were used to set the idle by-pass screws. To balance the side to side. The mixture screws: 3mm allen, I believe you need to read the exhaust mixture!
     
  13. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 11, 2001
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    I wouldn't be too hopeful for it making an operational difference in the fuel delivery to the injectors (as a small leak in the return line path isn't going to change the regulated supply pressure and everything else that happens downstream is driven by that). Let us know how it goes...
     

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