Kart racing techniques | FerrariChat

Kart racing techniques

Discussion in 'Other Racing' started by jordan747_400, Jul 25, 2004.

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  1. jordan747_400

    jordan747_400 F1 Veteran
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    Dec 9, 2002
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    Jordan
    The local Southern california gang is having a karting event in a few weeks and Im afraid Im falling victim to competitiveness...nasty thing :(

    Ive raced this track several times before and my best time is 27.2. Most other members are around the same time with 26.3 being the fastest time so far (he is a race car driver :)). Lap record at this place is a 25.5. Id love to take half a second or more off my time before the event comes to make myself a bit more competitive. Im not exactly the best "racer"...dont have much competitive racing experience which Im afraid comes with time...So any help I could get to increase my speed would be great.

    Im looking for some online resources for good karting techniques that I could go and practice a few times before this event. I did my own search but came up blank with only a few leads to rather expensive books on the subject...not exactly what Im looking for.

    For example, one thing I just learned from the member involved proper technique in turns. He says to lean to the outside of the turn in order to put more weight on the outside wheels, helping traction and turning ability. Something I had never thought of before...

    Anything else along those lines that you guys could offer up as advice?
     
  2. FLATOUTRACING

    FLATOUTRACING F1 Rookie

    Aug 20, 2001
    2,684
    East Coast
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    Jon K.
    Jordan,

    1) Be as smooth as possible, drifting or sliding a Kart looses speeds because the tires scrub off momentum
    2) Lose weight...........I am serious, on a kart 20 pounds makes a huge difference. At my local kart track I cut my time by a half second going from 200+ pounds to 185 or thereabouts.
    3) Grab some axle grease and liberally apply it to all your competitors tires before hand.

    Good luck.

    And yes the leaning part is correct!

    Regards,

    Jon P. Kofod
    www.flatoutracingnet
     
  3. Schatten

    Schatten F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Apr 3, 2001
    11,237
    Austin, TX
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    Randy
    1) don't brake (maybe gently lift, but of course, this varies on courses)
    2) drink lots of water/gatorade, especially before the race. you'll be able to think better for a longer period of time.
    3) weight might not apply, in the local Ferrari/Porsche league, we use weight ballasts, so I add about 60 #'s to come to the median weight. later on in a season, I used leg weights to balance the weight forward instead of all to one side of me. that helped.
    4) learn to tap the brakes if you have to, or lift the throttle if you have to, and get back on it JUST before the corner. this worked for me, although I'm not one of the fastest out there. by doing this you are anticipating the power coming on.
    5) experience, experience, experience. I tend to prefer going out with the F/pcar guys and getting my butt kicked rather than going on a casual outing with friends. while I can beat up on my friends, it isn't as challenging.
     
  4. maranelloman

    maranelloman Guest

    Jordan, also: Study the track map carefully. Look for the "line", then try to figure out the points where driving the shorter distance vs. the traditional line may be better. Sometimes, doing the former on a few corners will save you 20'-50' per lap over your competitor, which translates to major ownage at the checkered flag. Not every corner, but some, where this works. Finally, concentrate on getting the wheel straight ASAP coming out of a corner. Think about unwinding the wheel before the apex, and your body wil react at the apex. If you have rotated the kart properly at turn in, you will have plenty of rotation to complete the corner, and getting the wheel straight ASAP allows maximum throttle to go into making the kart go forward, rather than part of it dissappearing in front tire scrub.

    Have fun!
     
  5. Schatten

    Schatten F1 World Champ
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    Apr 3, 2001
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    Randy
    6) listen to Dave. he's quite fast around the karting track.
     
  6. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
    17,673
    Tauranga, NZ
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    Pete
    Smooth is faster. While Karts have to slide around (especially on slippery concrete) the really fast guys will not look the fastest. Spend lots of time thinking about the best line for maintaining the karts momentum ... sometimes this actually requires braking!

    I've also never heard on the leaning to the outside cornering technique ... I could not do that, would seem all wrong and with a fast kart (as opposed to an indoor one) you would be lifting the inside wheels.

    What I have always done in these indoor kart competition thingies is learn which kart is a good one ... by watching every race real hard. You soon usually find that around 3 of them are common front runners and then if you ever have a choice for which kart make sure you are in the front of the queue and casually grab the good one.

    The other thing (as these competitions usually take the top couple of finishers per race and keep working forward) is to be smart about winning at all costs. Many years ago I tried an impossible pass ;) and ended up loosing a place ... not worth it until the last round :D :D ... also if you win all the races up to the final you will be starting off the rear of the grid (how it is done in NZ anyway) ... thus pays not to win every heat, thus less karts to pass in the final.

    Have fun.

    Pete
     
  7. jordan747_400

    jordan747_400 F1 Veteran
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    Dec 9, 2002
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    Thanks for the help Jon, can you clarify this question for me? Ive always assumed for a hairpin coming from a long straight that you should powerslide through the corner in a kart almost like a rally driver would. Should I treat hairpins more like an F1 driver would then? As little drifting as possible?

    Another question which involves this little diagram of the track Ive attached. Ive never been sure what to do with the first turn. Its very high speed (flat out) but if you dont lift after you round the turn your kart will always start to slide unless you go wide for that first turn. Ive tried that technique but it never works out...always get passed on the inside. Should I lift slightly before the wheels would loose traction and try to stick closer to the inside wall? I think this may be an example of a turn Dave was talking about when you should just take the shorter distance over the traditional racing line. I think most of the other guys will keep their powerslide through this turn and probably brake late and slightly miss the apex. Thats what I used to do at least.
     
  8. jordan747_400

    jordan747_400 F1 Veteran
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    It does kind of seem all wrong, probably why I never really thought of it. Another thing I didnt think of in regards to that idea was that it would take weight off the inside wheels as well. Probably best to just keep myself centered in the kart like I usually would right? Equally distribute the weight? Maybe to a very small degree it could cause a difference in cornering speed but I dont know if it would be enough to warrant a change.

    I cant thank you guys enough for this advice!!
     
  9. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
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    Jordan,

    I forgot one very important part of karting (especially indoor stuff) ... how not to get overtaken.

    You have to make absolutely sure when you hear a guy behind you or feel him that you never leave an opening on your inside ... cause smash crash and bash they will be up their.

    You can easily hold them off if you take the tighter lines when required, ie. at the end of a long straight, etc.

    You will need to do this if you happen to get a dud kart ;)

    Pete
     
  10. jordan747_400

    jordan747_400 F1 Veteran
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    Thanks Pete! I not only need some driving advice, but some racing advice like this as well! Probably even more important.

    I always do seem to get passed on the inside...brake too late, dont turn in enough, whatever...always the problem it seems! I will be sure and keep this in mind!
     
  11. ferrarifixer

    ferrarifixer F1 Veteran
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    Jul 22, 2003
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    Phil Hughes
    The less you steer the faster you go.

    You need to understand your kart and drive it any way that keeps steering input to the absolute minimum. Depending on the particular balance of YOUR kart you'll need to use your bodyweight accordingly

    Momentum is everything, DO brake, but more for steering than slowing.

    You rarely gain much by trying to drive faster....just drive AS fast for longer...brake less and later, gas it earlier..USE THE FULL WIDTH of the track EVERY lap.

    Oh yeah, and tap the guy in front just as he gets on the brakes..he'll go sailing past the apex but won't go off so it'll look like his mistake....
     
  12. DGS

    DGS Six Time F1 World Champ
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    (Remembering some F1 debates.) (I'm not going to say it ...) ;) :D
     
  13. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

    Nov 20, 2002
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    Yep and I admit I fncked up ... should have made the pass stick :D :D

    In the end you guys are right that championship points are what they are racing for ... and in this karting competition a grid spot in the final was all I was racing for. I forgot and the racer inside me wanted to win every race ... ;), guilty as charged. Thus maybe I should add: do as I say not as I do ;)

    BUT there is one very, very important thing that every racing driver needs to do. They must intimidate the opposition ... that is they are the type to have a go at passing. IMO this is critical to your perception as a driver. If (like RB) you are known as a pussie, the driver in front will not worry about you being close behind and be extremely confident that they can hold you out all race long. This makes passing doubly difficult.

    When MS comes up behind another car they **** themselves and this is a huge advantage to MS. Same used to happen when Senna came up on another car. The guy infront just about drove off the track to let him through such was the intimidation.

    I always will be one of those drivers that will have a go, because winning the mental game is 75% of the battle.

    This is why RB will never be WC, because unless he qualified on poll and has a perfect start every race he is beaten BEFORE the race even starts.

    Pete

    BTW: When I used to belong to an indoor karting club (just for fun during the week after work) the team I belonged to ended up being hated. Not just because we always won :), but because we knew the race craft and took no prisioners. Racing is not a game to me, it wakes me up and the idea of letting somebody else win is just not there. Anyway I can remember starting on the front row beside this other guy and going for the first corner ... neither of us would give in (naturally because it is real hard to pass on a indoor kart track and thus getting through that corner first was bloody important) ... thus a big crash resulted (infact I nearly rolled my indoor kart and had to use my hand to stop it going over ...). Thus restart had to occur ... er, same thing and this time the owner of the place had a chat to us ... thus third restart! All I can say is that I never lifted and came through that corner first and won the race ... I guess the other guy must have lifted ;).

    I can guarantee that I was no dirtier racer than anybody else, but I was definitely not known as a push over ... and that is how it should be.

    Any real racer will tell you that you very quickly create your opinions of the other drivers. You usually only end up with about 3 that you take seriously ... to be a winner you must be one of those 3 for the others IMO.

    Nice guys come last!
     
  14. Brian C. Stradale

    Brian C. Stradale F1 Rookie
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    Mar 17, 2002
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    Really?!?!?! You should lean to the outside?? I'd have assumed the opposite. That would imply some really strange dynamics in karts that is counter to all normal racing physics.

    Maximum traction in a four-wheel car is when you have the weight evenly distributed on all four wheels. When turning, as you increase weight on the outside tires, you increase their traction a bit, but lose the inside traction a lot. Net loss.

    So, in a kart, the above recommendation would imply that the traction of kart tires actually increases more with extra weight than it loses with loss of weight. While that seems possible, it doesn't seem too plausible.

    In a car, you want to be smooth, in part, to minimize how much weight shift you get side-to-side. If the above recommendation is right (to shift your weight to the outside), then it is also plausible that its better to be LESS smooth on turn-in in order to throw more weight to the outside.

    Can anyone explain the actual dynamics of karts that makes shifting all the weight to the outside superior, when such is not true in cars?
     
  15. PSk

    PSk F1 World Champ

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    Brian,

    I think you might be putting to much complication into Karts. They do not have a diff remember and thus a solid rear axle ... thus the inside rear driving wheel always HAS to loose traction to go around the corner (assuming the more loaded wheel, the outside gets the traction) ... thus putting more weight on to the SINGLE driving wheel may help.

    Saying that Brian I have never, ever done that and really do not think it would make much difference.

    Why?

    Because I like to be really snug in my kart seat, thus learning would only move my weight bugger all if any ... and make my brain confused.

    Pete
     
  16. Ferrari Boy

    Ferrari Boy Formula 3

    Oct 25, 2003
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    David Couch
    So Jordan, trying to get a head start so you can beat me huh? I'm up to your plan!!! :D :D :D This advice also helps me because the only karting I've done is more kidish stuff, with small tracks and sloooow karts. But hopefully I will be able to join you on Saturday, I still need to talk to my dad. Hope I can race with ya!
     
  17. jordan747_400

    jordan747_400 F1 Veteran
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    Hah, our little secret David :)

    Hope to see you there!!
     
  18. tatcat

    tatcat F1 World Champ
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  19. Ferrari Boy

    Ferrari Boy Formula 3

    Oct 25, 2003
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    Shhhh, don't let Byron see, you need all you can get to beet his time!! Hope to see you there as well.
     
  20. maranelloman

    maranelloman Guest


    All of this is excellent advice. Well-said, Phil. I agree about braking purely for steering...and then only lightly--just enough to aid rotation w/o killing momentum. As for using the full width every lap...well, IMO, there are some corners you want to do that, and some you do not. In my experience, I often can close on other drivers simply by driving less distance. But this is situational.
     
  21. Admiral Thrawn

    Admiral Thrawn F1 Rookie

    Jul 2, 2003
    3,932
    Smooth driving is the key to fast lap times. Yes, your driving style should be much more like that used in F1 than rally car driving.

    I know a girl who went from sprint karts to 125cc rotax (which have to use full road-car tracks), and never did terribly well because she still had alot of the jerky driving movements ingrained in her head from the time around tight twisty sprint kart tracks.

    After making another move, this time to 250cc twin engine Formula E superkarts, her driving improved dramatically. The reason for this is that you simply can't afford to be jerky in these karts; they reach over 200kmph several times a lap, and have a power to weight ratio higher than any racecar after Indy cars and Formula 1. Therefore any awkward driving inputs would quickly send you into a spin or off the track.
     
  22. maranelloman

    maranelloman Guest

    Jordan, if I could sum up one thing that wopuld help you more than any of the others that have bene suggested, it would be this: actively work on getting the wheel as straight as possible as soon & as often as possible for as much of the course as possible.

    With only ~6 HP to work with, it is all about momentum. And the only way to carry momentum on a 6 HP kart that accelerates like a Yugo is to minimize resistance on the kart, which comes from wheel lock & brakes. Truth be told, in our indoor kart races here, I never reduce throttle at all. My foot is always to the floor. I use steering & a brush of brakes to rotate the kart, and the RPMs never drop, so the motor is always spooled up for the ensuing straightaway.

    Remember, it is just like driving a car on the track: the corner EXITS are much more important that the corner ENTRIES.
     
  23. jordan747_400

    jordan747_400 F1 Veteran
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    Thanks for all the advice guys. Im going to take it all to heart and go practice later this week or next. Ill let you know how my times do...

    Im hoping to go from a 27.2 to a 26.7. May do better or worse, but Ill give it a shot either way!
     
  24. maranelloman

    maranelloman Guest

    Jordan, IMO, it should not be that tough to shave off 1/2 second by working on a few of the suggestions here. However: work on one at a time only. Do not rey them all at once. Trust me on this!!

    Good luck!!
     
  25. maranelloman

    maranelloman Guest


    "try", and not "rey"...duh...I cannot type.
     

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