K-Jetronic mixture control tuning | FerrariChat

K-Jetronic mixture control tuning

Discussion in '365 GT4 2+2/400/412' started by 180 Out, Sep 18, 2012.

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  1. 180 Out

    180 Out Formula 3

    Jan 4, 2012
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    Bill Henley
    What does the forum think of this method for tuning the mixture control on a K-Jetronic? On a flat, deserted road, I put the automatic transmission gear selector in 2nd, accelerate normally through the 1st-2nd shift and continue to 2500 rpm in 2nd. Then I floor the throttle. As the tach needle hits 3500 I click the start button on a stopwatch. When it hits 5500 I click it again, to stop it. I write down the elapsed time. Then I turn the car around and do it again in the opposite direction. If there is a large difference between the two runs, I do it again until I have comparable numbers for each direction. Then I go under the hood and make a half turn adjustment to one of the mixture control screws. Then I repeat the two-way run and compare the new time to the baseline. I repeat this procedure, using quarter turns and eighth turns, doing the same to the other cylinder bank as well. When the oil temperature hits 110 degrees it's time to quit. I found that the results fall between 5.1 and 5.8 seconds. That range is wide enough to reveal differences in tuning.
     
  2. jm3

    jm3 F1 Rookie

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    #2 jm3, Sep 18, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Half a turn is WAY too much, if we are talking about the same screw. I do it 1/16 of a turn. Even 1/8 of a turn can bring you from too rich, past the "sweet spot", and too lean.
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  3. blkprlz

    blkprlz Formula 3

    Mar 24, 2007
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    +1!!
    Wow, that looks like a little four-banger unit :D

    Breifly, you'll need a gas sniffer, Gunson or other, up each tailpipe. Adjust each bank to w/in factory spec's.@ idle--1% to 2% CO using 3mm T-handle Allen wrench adjusting from lean to rich (CCW to ClockWise). Be sure you're getting full power to the plugs...each & every one of them (an 11 cyl. car still runs pretty good, you know :D). Mine's at 1.5% but I think it should be nearer to the 1% zone (but don't burn a piston :().
    Adjust your idle & balance the banks via vacuum gauge connected to the line between the WUR & intake plenum gooseneck. Iirc, my understanding is that the 'huge' Allen screw on the gooseneck should be screwed in all the way & adjusted 'out' to fine-tune if you can't balance the banks via idle screw.
    If you don't have the FI WM, try to secure one :D
     
  4. dstacy

    dstacy F1 World Champ
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    +1
     
  5. 180 Out

    180 Out Formula 3

    Jan 4, 2012
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    The half-turn step is the initial step to ballpark the range. My method is proposed as a cheap substitute for the 5-gas sniffer. The theory is that many baby steps, turning the mixture screw one way then the other, will eventually land on the sweet spot.

    In the alternative, does anyone have any suggestions for accessing a 5-gas sniffer?

    Personally, I dread turning my car over to a shop and telling them to have at it. I have *always* got poor results doing this. Regardless of make, model, or year, the charges are always fantastic and the repairs always merely half-way there, or worse.
     
  6. jm3

    jm3 F1 Rookie

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    I bet you can find a guy near you who can it perfectly, if not 10 guys. The Peninsula and South East Bay still has a concentration of old school mechanics, who have no trouble with this.
     
  7. blkprlz

    blkprlz Formula 3

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  8. 180 Out

    180 Out Formula 3

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    Now yer talkin. I had no idea you could get a sniffer for $220. The 5-gas units usually add a zero to that number, then double it. I think I'll do it.

    As an example of the dread I live with in the benighted Berkeley CA area, I just called a local shop which specializes in high end imports like Rolls-Royce and Jaguar. I tried to tell the guy I just want my K-Jetronic mixture control adjusted on the sniffer. Before I could get to that inquiry, he asked make-model. When he heard "Ferrari" he cut me off and said "I give you this number of my friend, ****, he knows these cars, he goes by appointment, he doesn't work every day, he doesn't work for everybody." I took down the phone number, but I just can't bring myself to call it.
     
  9. Ak Jim

    Ak Jim F1 Veteran
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    Dec 23, 2007
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    From what I have read (does that make me an expert?) you will hit peak power output at a mixture that is really too lean to be good for the engine.
     
  10. SouthJersey400i

    SouthJersey400i Formula 3

    Mar 14, 2007
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    Bill

    I am not sure what a 5-gas tester would do for you. There is only one screw to turn! Everyone adjusts for CO. There is nothing you can do for NOx except buy a different engine!

    Bruce
    The Gunson units do the job but they sure are touchy to get "zero'd". Mine drifts for nearly an hour before I feel comfortable to believe the readings. I pre-warm the engine and it is cold by the time the tester is ready to go to work. I use it and believe it, but you must be patient.

    Bill
    You said you quit testing at 110 C oil temperature. If you did all the other tests while it was below operating temperature the data is meaningless.

    Ken
     
  11. blkprlz

    blkprlz Formula 3

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    Like Ken said, there's only 1 CO mixture screw for each bank...plus these V12's don't have computers so you're basically adjusting the richness to achieve the 14.7 to 1 air to fuel ratio. You can play around w/ratio a little bit, otherwise HC's & NO's will fly off the chart.
    Go down about half way on this page for the exhaust gas graph:
    http://www.automotiveu.com/performancetuningpt2.htm

    It's a simple process, you'll see. You don't need a special mechanic to do this job.

    I noticed the touchy zero-ing in process too but got mine to w/in tolerance after some fiddling, around about the time the car was fully warmed up & all rad fans hummin'. :(
    It was a great primer for the CO adjustment procedure. Turns out, the CO adjustment was easier than the Gunson. :D

    +1
     
  12. SouthJersey400i

    SouthJersey400i Formula 3

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    Turns out, the CO adjustment was easier than the Gunson.
    +1
     
  13. 180 Out

    180 Out Formula 3

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    I mention this device only because they're what the well-equipped shops use, and if I could find a shop that would either perform a quickie sniffer hookup and adjust my mixture control for me, or would let me do it, I would be interested. They also have a "lambda" readout, too, which I would assume is superior to a CO reading.

    Now my ignorance is showing, even more than usual. Just what is operating temperature? I have not put many miles on my '83, but unless I'm doing repeated wide open throttle throttle runs, the oil temp gauge stays at the 100 mark. Precisely *because* I only see the 110 degree range when I've been lead footing it, I interpret that reading as in the yellow zone, at least. I don't want to blow up my precious, 29 year old motor. Is it OK to continue flogging it even after it has hit 110 degrees?
     
  14. blkprlz

    blkprlz Formula 3

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    Our cars are pre-lambda, so that won't help. Plus, the 5 gas analyzers are used on cars with computer controlled engines...the 400's don't have them. The Gunson or similar CO analyzer is all you need, some feel the Gunson is a toy & not as accurate as the more pricier ones.

    I thinkin' Ken meant 100 deg. C (which is 212 deg. F---boiling), & that's fine.
    Oh, & don't blow that motor, that'll be a $30K mistake you'll kick yourself for. :D
     
  15. 180 Out

    180 Out Formula 3

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    Yes, that's what I was thinking, that any daylight-seeking engine parts would pretty much wipe out my savings from doing my own tuneups.
     
  16. Rock

    Rock Formula 3

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    you need a gas analyzer, someone must have one near you
     
  17. blkprlz

    blkprlz Formula 3

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    I could use a couple of brake fluid reservoir caps :D
     
  18. SouthJersey400i

    SouthJersey400i Formula 3

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    I said 110 degrees C oil temperature and oil boils at a LOT higher temperature than that!

    I watched my gauges a bit closer this weekend on a 400+ mile trip to Gettysburg and back. At a steady 70 degrees F ambient I get just about 100 Coil temp. At steady 80 mph I am up to 105 or so. I know in summer at the same speeds both temperatures would be about 5 degrees higher. Oil temperature always seems to be load dependent.

    On the other hand water temperature at the same conditions was pretty steady at 90-95. In summer it would be 95-100 C. Water temperature only seems to go higher in stop and go traffic or if you slow suddenly have a long hard drive at higher speed. Three fans are really needed in summer. I had one dodgy fan 2 years ago and temperature pushed a lot higher at steady 70 mph. Hence I rewired fans for reliability. With a 12 psig radiator cap water will not boil in system until about 116 degrees C but actually higher with glycol in system.
     
  19. Rock

    Rock Formula 3

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    I have a set for you
     
  20. blkprlz

    blkprlz Formula 3

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    Sorry for the lack of description Ken. My thinking was that at 100 C, any moisture in the oil is steamed off. I've always used 100 C as the target temp. (when motor is to be fully warmed up), do you still stand by your 110 C recommendation?
    After reading AEHaas's Motor Oil 101 & following his recommendations,
    http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=136052&highlight=%22motor+101%22
    I found that my h2o runs around 80-85 C & oil runs around 90 C (unless sitting in major traffic back-ups which I generally avoid @ all costs), oil pressure 'around' 5~5.5 bar, & that the fans don't run as much. :) I have to be dumpin' fuel or sustained 160+ klicks to reach the typical temps (h2o @ 90, oil @ 100) while oil press. remains the same except when reaching redline.
     
  21. SouthJersey400i

    SouthJersey400i Formula 3

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    Bruce
    My point was that if you started taking readings below about 90 C, those readings were less meaningful. You stopped at 110, but where did you start? The sum of other posts is that 90 to 110 is pretty normal with higher numbers at high load or high ambient. If you took readings with oil temp down at 50, 60 and 70 they can not compare to those at 90-110.
    Ken
     
  22. blkprlz

    blkprlz Formula 3

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    Understood, thanks!
     

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