Just how mechanically similar are 246 Dino and Fiat Dino?

Valence, that is a very good question that I am interested in learning more about, I understand that the Fiat motor was a bit lower in horsepower but was very similar in other respects (maybe cams). The engine was longnitudal mounted and had a transmission mounted directly behind the engine. I would welcome other additions or corrections.

 

We have both Fiat and Ferrari Dinos in Santa Barbara so others will chime in. In my opinion the Fiat is similiar in the engine, only to the flywheel. Nothing else is similar so maybe 10% of the car is similar. Engine is 2.0 Ltr, not 2.4. Engine is mounted in front, running fore and aft with a conventional transmission driving the rear wheels. Body is steel, not too stiff. Independent suspension in front, live axle in rear. Heavy. The body lines were nice for its day. Nothing else was state of the art. Spent lots of time looking at Fiat pieces waiting for space for my engine rebuild. Workmanship shows why Fiat could not build the Dino as Ferrari originally planned. Blacksmith vs. sculptor. Bricklayer vs. artist. Mike will chime in so I will leave the stage. He loves his Dino as much as I love mine. The V6 is a real jewel and whatever the size, it does run good! And Mike's Dino does not have the hard left turn miss that drives Ferrari Dino owners nuts.

John

 

If it is a 2.0L in the Fiat, then is the Fiat block made of aluminum like the Ferrari 206 Dino or was it iron as in the Ferrari 246 GT/GTS?

AJ will probably know this...

 

Both engines are similar in all details save the transmission assembly (bell housing, clutch, clutch shaft, gearbox, differential).
FIAT had to use slightly "detuned" engines to maintain the Ferrari prestige. Valve sizes being equal in both cases maybe the cams were a bit less aggresive. Carburetors and inlet manifold are the same.

 

Both Fiat and Ferrari Dino came in 206 and 246 versions. The engines are the only components that were similar. The 206 Fiat Dino had a Fiat gearbox and a solid rear axle. The 246 Fiat Dino had a ZF gearbox and independent rear suspension. Whether Fiat or Ferrari, the 206 engines were aluminum block and the 246 were cast iron block. The big difference between the 206 Fiat and the 206 Ferrari engines was that the Fiat engine had an externally balanced crank while the Ferrari engine had an internally balanced crank.

Early Fiat Dino engines had DCN carbs and valve shims that were on the valve stem, under the cam follower. Later engines used DCNF carbs and the large valve shims on top of the cam followers like the Ferrari engines.

 

I have read in various publications that the horsepower gap (I think 15 HP) between the equivalent 2.0 and 2.4 engines for the Dino and the Ferrari is "ficticious", and a result of marketing departments rather than of significant technical differences.

True?

Cheers,

Julio

 

Most probably.

 

The Fiat Dino went to the cast-iron block 2.4 liter motor in '71 or thereabouts. At the same time, it got the IRS adapted from , I think, the top of the line Fiat 130 sedan. Also, some minor cosmetic changes were made; the front grill being the most obvious, if memory serves.

 

'some additional info for comparison:

'Fiat' Dino
2.0 litre engine ('67-'68) - Type 135B, 9:1 C/R, 160 bhp@7200, 126lb/ft@6000
2.4 litre engine ('69-'72) - Type 135C, 9:1 C/R, 180 bhp@6600, 159lb/ft@4600
(Ref: "Fiat Dino, Ferrari by another name," by Mike Norris)

'Ferrari' Dino
206 engine - Tipo 236B [?], 8.8-9.0-9.3:1 C/R [?], 180 bhp@8000, 137lb/ft @ [?]
(Ref: Various)
246 engine - Tipo 135 CS, 9:1 C/R, 195 bhp@7600, 165.5ft/lb@5500 [non-US]
(Ref: "operating, maintenance and service handbook" for the Dino 246GT, by Ferrari)

Re: Power disparity between the 2.4 litre engines, Ian Webb, in his book "FERRARI DINO 206GT, 246 GT & GTS, Pininfarina V6 road cars," has this to say:
"In Fiat's case, it was tuned to give 180 bhp - some eight per cent less than the Ferrari - though the only differences were said to be carburettor settings."

 

the extra HP of a Ferrari Dino vs. FIAT Dino is claimed by many books to be jut Ferrari advertising as most books claim there are no differences in the motors, same cams, same valves, etc. It all stops at the flywheel where everything is different like John said. Ferrari claimed some differences but never "identified" them and many a Ferrari has been rebuilt with FIAT parts and most FIATs have been rebuilt with Ferrari parts.

Best way to say is that many a FIAT Dino was scrapped so that its motor could live on in a Ferrari, its a direct bolt in and there are no differences.

So how much of a FIAT is like Ferrari ? 100% of the important part and maybe 10% of the rest, although the FIAT sure does look GOOD and Ferrari-esque I have been told, so maybe 15% of the rest.

Of course you have to compare FIAT 206 vs. Ferrari 206 and then FIAT 246 vs. Ferrari 246 since they went to cast iron on the 246

 

Adding to my previous, note that the Ferrari power quotes are at 800-1000 rpm more than the Fiat. Spin the essentially identical Fiat Dino to the higher revs...I'll bet the power will be essentially identical, too.
Ya think?

 

I am biased, so yes, I think

As a matter of fact I think so much, I had better take it out for a drive, John if you hear the revs up in the hills, its me.

Seriously, I have read lots and lots of books and magazine articles about the Dino (both types) and no one has ever been able to prove the HP differences and most (all that I have read) agree it was just hype to avoid FIAT from stealing some of Ferrari's thunder which is perfectly understandable. As I am biased, I believe them.

The handling is of course very different, the Ferrari wins hands down on the handling but my little FIAT will stay close. The fit and finish as John says was not as good but I also don't think it was as bad as people say it was, I like my car.

Basic quick differences FIAT 2.0 vs. FIAT 2.4 as has been said, bumpers were different, body panels will not interchange even though they are so close they look like they should, interior upgrades, of course IRS and a ZF gearbox, bolt-on wheels and minor trim changes. The best and quickest way to tell the difference is bolt-on wheel vs. spinoffs, the last few 2.0s had bolt-on but very rare. Wider track, 1383vs.1385 front, 1350vs. 1381 rear but same length wheelbase length.

I am sure the list reads the same for Ferrari 206 vs. Ferrari 246 and even if the motor is weaker I sure can't tell due to gearing of the gearbox and rear axle ratio and that awesome sound, so either one love them and DRIVE THEM.

mike (Sunshine, a Dino and Santa Barbara, life is good...outta here for a few hours)

 

To the original poster, if you were asking this question because you were thinking of buying that Ebay FIAT Dino for its motor for your car, be aware that the Ebay car is a 2.0L NOT a 2.4.

 

I think there was a recent article in Forza about this very topic, comparing two Dinos, Fiat and Ferrari.

Gotta go dig it out.

DM

 

Only similar parts are engine from flywheel in and from bottom of block up. Ferrari Dino was a new design from tip to tail after the 1965 show car was approved for production design. Fiat Dino had custom body and frame but all running gear and most bits and pieces came from then current Fiat production components. None of the parts that Jon has worked on so far are common to the two cars. Now that he is getting into the engine, you will see some commonality.

John

 

Another point re build quality. While the 2.0 Fiat was built in Fiat plant, the 2.4 Fiat Dino was built in Maranello along with 246 in buildings paid for by Fiat for that purpose. The Fiat spider bodies were designed and built by Pininfarina, so there are many parts in a 2.4 Fiat Dino Spider you will recognize in many Pininfarina designed cars of several marques. All the cast engine parts for any Dino motor 2.0 or 2.4 were produced by Fiat regardless of the destination (Fiat Dino or 246/206). The Dino wheels were a Fiat design and on 206 and early 246 were cast Fiat and Dino castings came later. But to answer the orig question, engine, wheels and shift knob and that's about it.

 

EXACTLY what I was thinking - financial pressure of a swap or at least using it as a donor.

If your 246 has a bad motor and you'll probably be pulling the engine out of the car, then would it make fiscal sense to find a low priced Fiat Dino with a good motor and swap the engine or use many of the parts that you need?

Seems a sensible extrapolation of the original post's intention.
How close did we come?