Hi, I'm just about to order super light Challenge Stradale wheels for $2,750 + shipping. They are a custom forged wheels - so I can pick my specs. I should mention that I currently have the 19" factory Challenge wheels that were an option on the F430 but want lighter wheels for much improved handling, acceleration, braking, and immediate turn in. My goal is to have a set of 19" Challenge wheels but at a much reduced lower weight. The factory Challenge wheels weigh 11.3 KG front and 12.5 KG rear. My goal is a weight reduction of about 20%. That means a 9 KG front and 10 KG rear wheel. I have spoken to four wheel manufacturers about my requirements and have finally found someone who is willing to make these wheels for me for a reasonable amount. Should I stay with the factory sizes and offsets or should I optimize size and offset to make them a little more handling focused? The factory Challenge wheels that were an option on the F430 are: 19x7.5 +31.5mm offset front on 225/35ZR19, contact patch width 8.1", weight 21 lbs (All tire specs are based on Michelin Pilot Sport 4S.) 19x10 +39.95 offset rear on 285/35ZR19, contact patch width 10", weight 28 lbs Tires: $1,175.88 Initially I was debating this combination: 19x8 +27mm offset front on 235/35ZR19, contact patch width 8.5" (+5%), weight 22 lbs, (+1 lbs) 19x10 +35 offset rear on 305/30ZR19, contact patch width 11.5" (+15%), weight 29 lbs, (+1 lbs) Tires: $1,339.08 On the rear wheel the weight penalty of 1 lbs for 15% more contact patch is a trade-off I can like easily. On the front the decision isn't that easy. 1 lbs penalty for just a 5% gain. This makes the decision a difficult one. If I keep the 225s in the front and go with 305s in the rear the balance of the car might be upset. Tons of grip in the rear and understeering like a snow plow in the front. Another complicating factor is that Michelin recommends at least a 10.5" rim width for 305s. That 0.5" increase in rim width will ad 1 lbs in weight to the rim. That makes it a total of 2 lbs heavier. Not so good a trade off any longer. At this point I think 295/30ZR19 would be the best choice since it is 0.5 lbs lighter and is recommended to be mounted on 10" wide wheel. Here is the kicker, it has an 11" contact patch, that is 1" or 10% more than the 285s. 19x8 +27mm offset front on 225/35ZR19, contact patch width 8.1", weight 21 lbs 19x10 +35 offset rear on 295/30ZR19, contact patch width 11" (+10%), weight 28.5 lbs, (+0.5 lbs) Attached is an image created by the manufacturers production software. It looks like a real wheel, although I don't like the color they picked for the image. I want mine in Grigio Corsa. For those of you who are still with me, please share you experience or opinion with the mentioned tire sizes and weights. Thank you. Image Unavailable, Please Login
That is an odd color, but I’d love to pick up a set for my 360. Are these going to be generally available?
Go with original, otherwise would you have to realign and change other parameters? Wheels look great and i’d be interested in getting them in gold. Is there a contact or link you can share?
I think it's an absolute must to go 0.5" wider so you can fit 305's at rear, 10.5" rears and wider fronts too. On F430 Challenge centerlocks I now run 305's rear, 245's front which transforms handling and grip using Michelin Pilot 4S, especially when you adjust geo / camber and ride height. The biggest learning from Challenge cars was you actually needed more grip up front too... Or understeer is a huge problem on the track... If you opt for 305's rear and 235's front you can get them in Michelin Cup 2 fitment specs which is basically the one of the best no compromise dry tires I've ever used. That's the dimensions used by the McLaren 675LT btw.. although they run 20's rear and 19's front. Look at specs and offsets used on race F430 Challenge centerlocks as they fit perfectly without issues and give a massive increase in grip in the dimensions produced. .. I love my setup and it gives even better mechanical grip than even a factory 430 Scuderia. It's such a step up you wouldn't believe...
So far I just paid for the design work. The final price will depend on the size I decide to go with. If it is the stock size it will be $2,500. A little wider (0.5") in the front will bring it to $2,750. PM me your phone #. I'll call you with all the details.
I think that looks great. Gold it wonderful too. BBS has a lock on that design (theirs) in the Ferrari bolt pattern. I bet they would have something to say if they caught wind of this. But who knows! Anyhow... Here is an obligatory photo of the real deal in factory gold to go with the thread: Image Unavailable, Please Login
My design is based on today's knowledge of weight optimized manufacturing of CNC forged wheels. That has very little to do with the manufacturing of a mass produced heavy cast BBS wheel more than ten years ago. There wasn't even an iPhone in this world when Ferrari designed their cast wheel. But just to be on the safe side I red up on Design Patents. Turns out they are very weak and hardly enforced by their owners. Ferrari did not put a design patent on this wheel. Probably based on that knowledge. Maybe there is a patent lawyer among us who can shed some more light on this question. Ferrari has not come after any of the Challenge grill manufacturers. I don't think they care much about my one set of much improved and lighter forged wheels.
To my understanding its a BBS design, not Ferrari. And BBS makes that design to fit many cars, but, in a Ferrari bolt pattern that design (theirs, not yours) is only available through Ferrari and not any other supplier.
I think I'll be fine. Regarding tire sizes, what do run on your Challenge wheels and how do think it handles? Your car looks great on gold wheels.
If you're building a set for personal usage, doubt anything will happen. If you're building to sell, and then you sell a fair amount, then maybe they'll come speak with you. Personally, BBS Wheels, although strong, and "light", are really not that light. With today's Forged Wheels Technology, you can mill backpads, spokes, and do pocketing and all, and it would be lighter than the original wheels were/are.
I am all for reduced weight, and rolling mass (I was talking about this 20 years ago, no one listened back then), but I have to ask OP exactly what you are trying to accomplish. I have experimented with multiple wheels, weights, sizes and types of tires over the years. What I found out was that what seemed to make sense on paper did not always have the effect on road car that I thought it would. I found going down a size (especially from 20" to 19 or 18") made a bigger difference than weight. And this is something not many people consider but tire sidewall flexibility (Bridgestone Potenza SP04's have a strong sideway held corners very well), it does matter, but in the end it is the tire that is touching the road. I have the 18"17" tire package on my 4C and it handles much better the 19" 18" package. I have spent a lot of time and money over the years trying to see what I could accomplish with the right setup. Truth is in a road car (unless you are going from something ridiculous like 20" wheels with runflats to 18" with regular tires), I found it did not make a difference that could be felt other then in my mind. I always admire those who want to get the most from their cars, though pretty much every modern Ferrari is far more capable than 95% of its owners (these days I include myself among that 95%), and I used to say the best way to know what your car (or you) can do is to drive without traction controls, only then do you really know what your cars faults (or your are).
Good stuff. So I have three sets of these wheels. I have differing sizes on all three. One set is stock (silver) for concours, another set has a larger footprint on the front for main driving (gold), and one set has larger footprint both ends (like 360Trev) for track stuff (black). I think at the minimum the front can benefit from a slightly wider tire. I like the front to stick Vs the understeer that it originally had dialed in. Of course I run 3+ degrees negative camber and I have set the rest of the alignment on kill. It is an extreeme car, so I dialed in extreeme settings for street use. How does it handle?.. Like a cat on carpet.
I got several PMs from guys who want a set. If there is anyone else who wants a set, please PM me. I just decided on 8x19 and 10x19 yesterday. My personal set will have a 9 mm more aggressive offset. In that size the set will be $2750. Colors are your choice. It will take 30 days to make the wheels. Manufacturer requires payment up front. There will not be a second production run of these. I'm just doing this because I'm nuts about wheel specs. Once I have a set I'm done. This project has been years in the making.
Its a real shame you didn't go 8.5" at front... Makes a huge difference to availability of good tires not to mention dialing out understeer...
Trev, can you post what tire size you'd ideally run to alleviate the understeer problem on a 360 with the 18" Challenge wheels that are 0.5" wider front and rear?
I know where you are coming from. As a real track fan that is the best way to go. But that was not what I'm after. A track focused car with neutral handling -- where understeer is almost dialed out -- is too dangerous for 99.9% of drivers in road conditions and maybe even if they ever make it to a track because all drivers have been trained by decades of driving to drive cars set to understeer if taken too fast into a turn. The driver's natural and correct response to understeering is to lift off the gas which in most cases gets the car to a stable condition. Professional drivers who are much more in tune with suspension geometry and grip levels are trained to control a neutral car. The problem for 99.9% of drivers is a neutral car gives up grip on all four wheels at the same time. That results in a four wheel drift off the track and into the dirt. Not a problem on some tracks. Other tracks have armco or even concrete walls to drift into. Bigger problem there. On the open road there is other traffic, ravines, traffic poles, and pedestrians. The cost of getting it wrong is much higher. There has only been one sports car sold in the past thirteen years that was set up close to neutral right from the factory. That was the Porsche Carrera GT. While that is a legendary car its neutral set up has caused many experienced drivers/owners to crash them.
Last chance to jump on the Challenge wheel band wagon and order a set of my wheels. I'll finalize my order Thursday morning PST. Watch this video from 9:50. It shows all around a 360 with 19" Challenge wheels. I think the wheels are too far inside. That's why I like my 9 mm more aggressive offset. Turn off the volume. The guy does not know much about wheels.
Here are some more pictures. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Here are the most popular colors. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
I'm eager to get my wheels into production but am getting more questions about specs and if you guys can get a set. Yes, you can get your own set of forged Challenge wheels that are lighter than stock for $2,750 . To let everybody catch up over the weekend and decide if they want to get a set I'll wait until the end of Sunday before I submit my manufacturing order. Here are answers to some of the questions I'm getting in PMs and text messages: * Colors are your choice. * Rear Wheel Weight Savings of 2.7 LBS per wheel. That is a huge weight reduction for one single wheel. * Front Wheel Weight Savings off 1.10 LBS per wheel. Remember the front wheel got wider, from 7.5" to 8". * OEM center cap will fit. * OEM bolts will fit, both the Titanium and Metal versions. * Production time is 25 days. But let's say 30 days. Shipping time depends on where you are. Let's say 1 week with FedEx Home Delivery. * Price is $2,750 plus shipping. PayPal Payment with full buyer protection. If you don't like them you send them back to me and just pay for shipping expenses. * My recommended sizes are 8x19 et 28 mm, 10x19 et 30 mm. That is 9 mm further out than OEM Challenge wheel. The stock et numbers are 9 mm higher because they sit 9 mm further inside the fenders. 9 mm is less than 1/3". This is still a conservative offset.
Can I also get the contact info for a set of wheels for my 360? I would want to keep the wheels at original 18" size. 561-339-3875 [email protected] or PM to me. Thank you.
Can I also get the contact info for a set of wheels for my 360? I would want to keep the wheels at original 18" size. 561-339-3875 [email protected] or PM to me. Thank you.
