Jalopnik: never speed in virginia...3 days in jail...

CW - well stated as usual. I understand that many find the punishments here draconian, I just haven't had that experience. My reckless driving ticket wound up being reduced to a non-moving violation which cost more $$$ (just a bit over $100, iirc), but no points, and more importantly, no misdemeanor. Another speeding ticket was dismissed after I spent a Saturday in "speeding school" (whose instructor was an idiot, I might add!), and the pull-over my friend's 308 resulted in a handshake and "have a nice night - drive safely".

Those are just my experiences, and it seems things have changed dramatically since then. I would not complain if things here changed, but since they are the way they are, I simply choose to "win the game", even if it means driving more slowly than I'd like. (though with fuel prices what they are, I'm more inclined toward fuel efficiency these days anyway…..)

Thanks!

 

Speed limits on the interstates or other divided highways are 65 or 70 (usually 70) when not going through a city in VA. 2 lane roads are 55 or 45. I see nothing wrong with that or out of line with other areas of the country. Left lane on 95 is usually 80 to 85mph, I stick to 80 and have never gotten so much as a glance from a cop. If you feel the need to do 90-100 on a regular basis, VA is not the place for you unless you're smart enough to visit VIR or summit point to get your jollies. I've had less issue with speeding tickets etc. In VA than I did in NY.

 

No, I don't. I'm not advocating that 90-100mph is appropriate on a "regular basis", either. I'm not suggesting that someone should drive 70mph down Rte 7 weaving in and out of traffic. In fact, I'd think the most appropriate places and conditions for "high speed" runs would be on long, straight roads with limited access points and very light traffic. I am advocating, however, for the point that, under certain circumstances, it can be perfectly safe, shouldn't be an issue and shouldn't "get a second look", either.

Sure, I used to go to Summit and VIR. I held a GrandAm-license and still hold a competition license. I've logged I-don't-know-how-many-hours in race cars on tracks around the country. And, after leaving any track, I have to remind myself that I now need to go back to driving in slow motion. Driving at racing speed shows you just how far the posted limits are within safety tolerances of modern, high performance cars.

So, if it can be done safely, why shouldn't it be permitted? Fast is not the same as reckless or unsafe. VA cannot (or refuses to) make that distinction.

CW

 

Not to put to fine a point on it, but people are idiots, that's why. Let people do 100 when they think it's safe and they'll do 100 all the time. I don't know that there would be more accidents if that were the case, probably not, but the repurcussions of an accident at those speeds are much worse. On the track you have a helmet, a car that has been checked for safety that day (not sometime in the last year) and a controlled environment with more run off and other situationally aware drivers. You unfortunately get none of that on the highway.

 

I agree.

Now as for the term "weaving" that's being bandied about, I'd like to hear a definition from someone, please. Frequent lane changes, with proper distances between cars and the appropriate use of turn signals, don't appear to me to be reckless or unsafe, in and of themselves.

 

To me, weaving means moving right to pass a slower car ahead of you. The law is, no passing on the right. Faster cars are to pass on the left. Slower cars are to stay to the right. However, when a faster car comes upon a slow mover in the left lane, they often don't bother slowing down, move a lane (or often more) to the right, pass and then move back to the left. Those drivers are picking their way through slower traffic. It doesn't have to be reckless or unsafe, regardless of whether they use signals or not, but it is a violation of a different traffic code. There may not be a better way to articulate it (and I don't want to default to a you'll-know-it-when-you-see-it answer, but if anyone has a better way of saying it, I'm happy to hear it).

One of the problems seems to me that slower drivers who should be moving right, aren't. They clog up the left lane. Either because they don't care what's going on behind them or they're practicing a certain type of passive-aggressive vigilantism (the speed governor) or they just feel that they're doing 5-10mph above the speed limit, and that's fast enough for everyone. BTW, this is also a violation of the traffic codes (should only be in the left to pass). However, as a result of impatience (or whatever), some faster drivers are disinclined to slow down and/or wait. I can understand, as I have certainly seen drivers causing a back up in the left lane, and while I wait for them to move to the right (which, apparently, they seem incapable of doing), a freight train of cars is passing on the right. The problem is, therefore, created by the slow driver in the left lane (the moving chicane). In certain places in VA, this is caused by VA's stellar traffic engineers who have, in their infinite wisdom, built left-lane exits. So, slower traffic is moving to the left to exit (or enter).

To some extent, traffic speeds are self-regulating. There's a speed that the "pack" is doing. One really can't go much faster in those instances. Certainly not without moving right and left to find gaps in order to maintain a higher speed. One really shouldn't go much slower, either, though.

Personally, I found the DC-metro road systems to be over- or under-signed, confusing (often, you have to take some indirect route to get where you want) and in poor condition. Traffic is often slowing, en masse (RT exits onto Dulles Toll Road and 66 from the outer loop, for example), for no real reason. All it takes is for one slow driver to bring the whole thing to virtual gridlock. And, for that matter, the drivers are awful, in general. I don't know how people can't operate a motor vehicle, but far too many are distracted, too timid and inept or just plain shouldn't be driving. Thanks, DMVs for giving licenses to people who shouldn't have them. Great training and licensing programs you're running, there.

CW

 

They are, indeed. And, we cannot eliminate all the variables on the road. Accidents will continue to happen (honestly, look at all the dented, scraped and damaged vehicles in the DC metro region!), and it stands to reason that if there's more force involved due to higher speeds, the potential for more injuries exists.

However, as I stated, there are studies that have shown that when speeds are increased, the fatalities per miles driven have gone down. Which is semi-counterintuitive, but I think could be explained by the fact that when you're paying attention, you drive better. OTOH, how hard is it to stomp on the gas and look out for drivers ahead of you in the left lane (or moving left) on 95, 66 or the Beltway? At certain times, you may be the only vehicle on the road for miles.

But, this is about the proper use of discretion. I'd argue that we can train and quality drivers in how to apply that discretion better, too. I'm not saying give a 16-year old a license and turn them loose. In a way I'm saying, if you have the skills, that can be accommodated. Why can't it? Not everyone who drives fast is an idiot or does so recklessly and dangerously.

Although, I always have to chuckle: the driver going faster than you is a f'ing nutjob, and the driver going slower is an inept moron. So true...

CW

 

Just your average guy who attended almost every FOW track event since 2000. Been out with Allie once. Lenny is my buddy. And, shortly after I bought my car, I spoke with Arnie about it since FOW did the last major. We may have actually met. But I don't refer to myself as a "racer." ;-)

It's not about endorsing constant high-speed on public roads...or playing the game. It is about VA's punishment for traffic violations that are not commensurate with the offense. The sheer number of VSP officers who hide in every nook and cranny along VA roadways are proof that VA is addicted to this revenue like it's crack cocaine.

 

Understood. But since you know what they're doing, it kind of is a game, if you don't want to wind up in jail or broke from fines. Everyone makes their own choices...

Good luck.

gp

 

In some ways, the Jalopnik writer was lucky to only get 3 days in jail for Reckless Driving in VA.

The maximum penalties for Reckless Driving (a Class 1 Misdemeanor) are:

- up to 12 months in jail

- suspension of your driver's license for up to 6 months (whether it is a Virginia driver's license or from another State).

- a fine up to $2500.

- 6 points on your driving record (stays on your record for 11 years).

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One of the easiest places to get a Reckless Driving charge for speeding is on the Dulles Toll Road.

If you look, you'll see the 35 MPH speed limit signs quite a ways before you start to slow down for the Toll Booths.

I just went through the Toll Booths today and happen to look down at my speedometer as I passed the 35 MPH signs.
I was doing 60 mph at that point - and I am not one of the faster drivers on the Dulles Toll Road.

There is no reason to slow down at the point where the 35 mph signs are.
There is plenty of time to slow down for the Toll Booths starting about halfway between the signs and the booths.

I suspect more than 95% of the drivers going through the Toll Booth zone could be cited for more than 20 mph over the speed limit as they enter the 35 mph zone.

Imagine spending 12 months in jail for doing something everybody does every day!
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Makes me kind of want a street car again. Fantastic roads.

 

It certainly can be all about the money. The fines add up quickly. The City of Hopewell, just south of Richmond, has less than 2 miles of I-295 running through it. Hopewell collects in excess of $2M per year in fines on this 1-2 mile section of interstate. Most are for reckless (over 80). They have multiple deputy sheriffs who do nothing but patrol this very short stretch of interstate.

Legislative scrutiny increases on traffic-fine revenue - Richmond Times-Dispatch: Archive

My experience is that states vary considerably in the way they enforce their traffic laws. VA clearly focuses on reckless driving (20 over or over 80); other states such as Ohio will pull you for 5 over. I don't know anyone in VA in the last 10 years to get pulled over for less than 10-15 over. The main focus here is in writing high dollar tickets.

David

 

State to avoid at all cost for business ,driving or anything else. Seems that the jails are not overcrowed enough there. One would think the officals have bigger problems to solve.

 

To the extent that there are fines due to the Court, fees associated with safe driving classes, DMV re-instatement costs, increased insurance premiums and so forth, I fully agree.

What I don't "get" being about the money is putting people in jail for speeding, which has a cost (borne by the taxpayer). Especially when other jurisdictions do not treat speeding as prima facie evidence of reckless. Fines generate revenues. Putting someone in jail is an expense.

CW

 

Ohio is the ONLY state I have gotten a speeding ticket in over the last 15 years! Semper Fi!

Virginia's judges are not bad if the only thing the cop had you on was the speed itself(up until 90 mph that is). If you are weaving while speeding, they don't like that one bit.

 

we live in country where cops shoot kids 6 times including 2x to the ehad to stop them, or in nyc 5 cops imnjured numerous bystanders letting off 100's of rounds. the issue is one of appropriate resonse to an issue.

We have towns free to fleece passing motorists. Like sheep we put up with it, these are not direct voting issues. But like high taxes people move elsewhere.

I say F Virginia it sound slike vagina anyways. A place with type of attitude deservs to go down.

 

This. Down on the eastern shore, the Maryland State Police have run radar from the tops of bridges and even MDoT bucket trucks on Rt. 50 as folks are headed into Ocean City. They will pull over an entire gaggle of vehicles driving together for 10mph over. If that is not just ridiculous revenue generation, I don't know what is.

 

Could it be that jail is seen by the authorities as the more effective deterrent?

 

It is definitely a deterrent, but it is not that well advertised. Plus, isn't it a bit overboard, a bit of cruel and unusual considering the "crime". Speed in and of itself is not reckless driving, lucky most Judges in the Commonwealth of Virginia recognize that and drop the charge if the officer does not describe something truly reckless.

But the "authorities", ie. the cops and judges, should not be seeing this as an effective or ineffective deterrent. It should be up to the legislature, and those elected to represent us in Richmond should make significant changes to the law.

 

And I got such a ticket for just this... a state trooper on his knees in the EZ-Pass lane! If was doing anything else I would have hit him, can't be a smart move to duck low in a fast lane aiming a LiDAR gun...

 

Oh, obviously they feel that speeding is a major crime. Worthy of jail time up to a YEAR. For speeding? This is basically over-kill, and the punishment doesn't fit the crime. Total horsesh*t.

And, when other states don't even come close to agreeing with VA's position on the matter, it just accentuates how ridiculous VA is.

CW

 

Exactly.

This is a sort of good-intent-gone-bad.

CW