Pretty "sporty" lookin' seats you've got there ;)
Nick, Yes there is the reality of where to fit everything. I'm rather ignoring those issues and just throwing my comments based on face value of the pictures... it is always much easier to be a criticm than a do-er! It would be better to bring the cills into play (both structurally and crash protection), but once you get more of your ancilliaries mounted then you might be able to go back to this issue later. A good central spine was the basis of Colin Chapman's chassis designs, so you can't go far wrong. From what I can see your spine is pretty solid and well braced, but as more and more is added I can't see the spine from the photographs. As a check - Just look at your design and make sure you have a good interlocking pattern of triangles running between ALL your key load points down that spine, ie: from the suspension and engine pick ups... ignore all the rest of the framing (door hangers, bulkhead frames, radiator hangers....). If the main spine is good, then you should be on the right lines. BUT try to make all your triangles meet at nodes (common points - tube end meets tube end across the node) so you get a direct transfer of forces, try to avoid "staggered junctions". Not too sure about the spacer idea. Remember that the the flywheel is dynamically balanced to the crank and probably sits on a spigot end, so you'll need to replicate that spigot detail... but I am not a mechanical engineer so can't really advise. Personnally I'd try not to use a spacer, but if it doesn't mate to the gearbox shaft you're probably stuck for other options? Push on... that wiring looks fun! David Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Hi David Well, tried to match the gearbox fixing to the V12, but no way, I don't like the idea of a flywheel spacer, so 2 hacksaw blades and 2 hours later - cut 15mm off the bellhousing Man, I am burning some calories on this thing!
Oh eck, I bet that was fun! There must be a bright side... err... 1) at least it wasn't an iron bellhousing? 2) you have done enough this week, so you DON'T feel guitly about not going to go to the gym? Nahh, presumably the bright side is that... it now fits correctly? David.
Its been a while since I updated you all on my progress, which to be honest has been painfully slow. At times its a real case of two steps forward and three back. But I think I'm making progress. OK, the engine was sitting too low, so i raised it 3cm at the front, which meant the manifolds no longer fitted. The starter has now been resolved, I bought an XK8 starter and welded that to the flange of an Audi one - now it fits and turns over! I even got oil pressure up yesterday - this was after changing the oil and filter - only to find that it was all blowing out the other side from me - what a mess (little pipe came off)! I bought my Megasquirt 1 V3 ECU, and like everything else that too was flat packed, and it turned up with bags of resistors, transistors, diodes... Anyway I put it all together and have tonight sent it off to have it made correctly - sometimes a man has to know his limitations (now who said that?) This when working will power the injection in two bank mode and drive the two V6 ford coil packs. i am going to run a wasted spark EDIS setup. I have machined the front pulley and fitted the 36-1 trigger wheel, also the alternator. I am losing the water pump in favour of an electric pump - the Jag has too many pulleys and belts. The wiring loom is now half the size it was, all the rear doors, windows and accessories have been cut out, along with the Ford Engine management and cruise control, heated screens (the seats still get nice and warm). Tonight I got the engine and injection realys configured for teh new ECU, so hopefuly just a case of plugging it in and turning the key The dash all lights up and the lights work, even the trip computer bizarrely thinks it has a full tank of gas, bugger if I can find where it is... I do need to source a couple of tanks - if anyone know of any? The steering now works, turn the steering wheel and the wheels move - how cool is that! I have had the gearbox off so many times my arms are now like Popeyes! I fitted new bolts to the Audi flywheel and made a spigot bearing from brass and a heavily modified V12 jag bearing. Put it all together and it would turn over. Stripped it down only to find the bolts were too long off on off - on, anyway now its so accurately fitted hell will freeze over before it comes off again. Ill get some pictures up here when I have time.
It doesn't strike me that you are making particularly slow progress. Quite the opposite. You are just in that middle stage of a project... when you realise that you are quite a long way from the start line, but the finish line has yet to appear. Press on - we are enjoying the build story. David
Ok David just for you Work has interrupted the build a bit, and my wife is getting fed up with me being in the garage 24/7! But... I have completely rebuilt the steering and brake/clutch pedal box part, and its all fitted! I bled the brakes and the clutch on Sunday and I have brakes, with ABS! The clutch works and the accelerator opens the V12s throttles. I know that doesn't sound massive, but when you see that everything was made from nothing its pretty cool. When you turn on the ignition you can hear the ABS pump work and the ABS light goes out. To fit the ABS unit I had to mount its components individually and the reservoir remotely which took some fabrication. I also had to remount the steering rack offset by about 4 cm. I have welded the pedal box into the chassis and fitted the floor panel so it feels really nice when you put your feet on the brake/clutch and accelerator. The ECU is being worked on, apparently I missed a jumper "Tach in to VRin and TSEL to VRout", now why didn't I know that! Also the IC that drives the comms port has blown and needs to be replaced, so hopefully Bill will fix it and get it back so I can fire the car up. I have changed the oil and fitted a new cooler, I had to change all the cooler pipes and fit new adapters, but the whole thing fits nicely in one of the side vents. I have bought a DAVIS CRAIG EWP80 ELECTRIC WATER PUMP so am going to get rid of the mechanical water pump in favour of the electric one. This means less belts, better cooling, smaller radiator and optimum engine temp (allegedly) I still need some a fuel tank??? I need a gear changer, anyone got a spare/old/us 308/328/348 one knocking about!! I'll try and take some pictures tomorrow - but attached are a couple of the flatpack ECU - before and after Hot off the press, news just in, My Megasquirt ECU has been fixed So the 1st EDIS wasted spark V12 mid-engined space framed thingy could be just days away from its maiden drive out of the garage! Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Well done Nick. Why not get a Fuel tank made to fit? i was quoted around £400 for a purpose built Ali. one for my car from a place in Cambridge. That way you can fit it exactly where you need it.
£400!!! I was cursing being quoted £200 for a pair of triangular alloy ones I am trying to do this without upsetting the wife, £400 out of the house keeping purse might be a step too far (and I don't get that much pocket money). But I do know what you mean - I think I am going to buy a TIG, get rid of the MIG and make my own, it can't be that hard....
Here are a few I took today, it looks a mess, but there is method to the madness! Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
you're getting there! Looking at the pictures I'm a little concerned about the strength of the rear right. It just looks like pretty thin metal for the way it's designed and the welds look pretty cold to keep it together…..but it might just be the picture playing games with my mind.
You won't regret it. I find the TIG much easier to do a good job with than the MIG....I use it for most everything I can fit in the shop and keep flux core wire in the MIG for outside work. For thick aluminum a lot of amps are required to TIG....I bought a used 400A with a water cooled torch and chiller for $1300 a few years ago. It seems like used the big machines are actually cheaper than the smaller ones becasue most people think small when they think home garage so there is a lot more demand for the small ones.
I would concur. You're on the right track but the welds don't look up to the task. I would seriously consider gusseting the more critical joints as well.
I Agree too! I don't like the front either, but the idea was to make something that would hold the wheels on until I comeup with a better idea. I have the jigs now for the 4 corners, and have ordered some heavier guage tube (the ones on the car are only 25mmx1.5mm so not really heavy enough, even if welded properly. I like the used TIG idea, I will keep my eyes open, I was looking at a 200amp new one on ebay for around £200 which seemed quite reasonable. The rest of the chassis I think is cool, it was looked over by a guy who builds and races rally cars who's only comments was too much steel! The uprights are made of 3mm steel and are very heavy and strong!
sounds like you've got it under control. Another plus with a TIG is reflow any weld (including any of the MIG welds) that you don't like the look of. A 200A machine is all you need for steel, and it will do thin aluminum, like for your gas tank but nothing thick. You need AC for aluminum and some or the low output TIGs don't have that, so check. The 180A unit we have at work doesn't have it. Also, you will never reget a watercooled torch...they are SOOO much easier to handle. For aluminum were you are always over 200A it's the only way to go IMO. Oh, and a foot pedal, you need a foot pedal for sure. I don't know what it is with crazy v12 projects......here's mine if you haven't seen it. http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=170171
I have seen your car, its seriously cool, do you still have it? what were you're throttle bodies off, I have been looking at some bike ones, but nothing seems right. I take it this was not your 1st project? Was it a kit or from piles of steel?
I think you've got my project mixted up with someone elses. My car is a 308QV that I'm putting a very modified V12 in. It is getting individual TBs off suzuki gsx1300r, on ebay they sell for about $200US per set of 4 with the injectors. I have done a couple small formula cars (FSAE) and a motorcycle from a pile of tubes in the past and hopefully will get the change to do another in the future. Currently my plan is a 1934 ford roadster with a lincoln flat head V12, full race type space frame chassis (no working doors), 4 wheel indepentant double A-arm suspension....if I even finish the 308 that is......
oops sorry, I just followed the thread? Saw this on ebay, seriously tempted for the next one http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=180247798965&ssPageName=STRK:MEBI:IT&ih=008
Simply quite fantastic. Thanks for the update, you're chugging along nicely. I imagine there will be a tingle of excitement when that V12 spits back into life... Somebody mentioned making a fuel tank, it might be worth a pressure test before you first put fuel into it. You do not want it soaked in petrol, if you might have to go back an touch up a leaking weld. I would leave the filler neck over long, weld a capping plate and fill the tank almost entirely full with water. Stick on a gauge and bike pump on and test to no more than 5 - 10 psi. Even "only" 10 psi might be quite enough to flex or even buckle a rectangular tank (depending on proptions, material choice, thickness), so be careful. You really only need enough pressure to prove the welds against leaks. Get the pressure on then leave the tank for 10 mins of so and see if the pressure holds and the seams are good. Once the test is okay, you can then cut the neck back to the right length. NOTE: NEVER pressure test any tank with just air - if it fails the released compressed air expands suddenly back to its normal volume and the release can cause the failed tank to rupture and debris to fly. Pressurised water by comparison is in-compressible, a failure will just cause a slight jolt/thud by comparison. This is precisely why boilers are "water pressure tested". If you ran a steam boiler to say 1.5 x normal pressure with steam, for test purposes and it failed... there would be bits or iron everywhere, embedded in the walls, in the ceiling, in the by-standers... not pretty. I take it by now you've got a copy of the SVA rules, ie: the extended Single Vehicle Approval test the car will undertake before it is allowed on the road. People make out that this is a book of biblical proportions and fiendish complexity. As far as I've heard it is more about common sense - a very detailed MOT, looking at the design and finishes. It might be worth a little research now, before you finish locating items. You could avoid surprises with pedestrian protection, cockpit details, rules on mounting of devices and so on. It will probably have a bearing on the design of the body you are going to cloth this special with. Keep up the good work. David
Hi Mate, Here's an idea, How about I use 2 bike tanks? Any idea what the capacity of say a big 1100/1300 bike would be? I still have all the Scorpio's filler bits, so should be relatively straight forward, as long as its more than just a couple of gallons. 2nd question, how many litres/min do you think a 30 year old V12 water pump would manage? I am working on the assumption that 30 years ago the flow wouldn't have been as great as say a modern day belt driven water pump. The EWP80 pump I have bought is suitable for up to 5.0l (as a main or 7.0l as an auxiliary, I have no intension of reconnecting the old water pump so i just hope 80 l/min is enough. As for the SVA, I think there is enough Scorpio in the car to simply put the old plates on! I have been told that its a risk, but could be well worth it. I have used every single part of the Scorpio apart from the body/engine and gearbox/diff, I even have used some of the chassis. All the door internals/car electrics/hinges/locks/running gear/brakes/steering/heating/ventilation/dash/chairs/pedals even the two gas struts that held the hatch back up are being used (for the scissor doors). Everything has been recycled and where it was not serviceable replaced (I have opened an account at my local Ford SMC place). I reported the Scorpio as having an engine swap, its no longer a 3.0 but a 5.3l, all I have to do is lose 2 doors and change the colour and I should be home and dry.... officer... I am also not going to use the car other than shows, so we'll have to see how it fares at the MOT, if they throw a wobbly, i guess I will have to rethink this strategy. today I fitted the two coilpacks and the HT leads, looks well smart.
I'd guess that you'd get about 3-4 gallons in a bike tank, making maybe 3 gallons usable capacity (there's always a bit in the bottom of a tank). My friend is one of those strange leather clad people who don't have enough wheels on their vehicle. I've sent him a text and will see. The V12 is a faily big block, but even so say 2.5 - 3 gallons (14ltrs), so that is up to 6 changes of water / minute? Gut feel that seems okay, but I'm also not quite sure what is a normal circulation rate. Personally I would still run the old pump, if you do not remove the old impellor and the pump is idle it will be a source of restriction to the flow. So the options are to remove the pump and make a new housing/maniflod to replace it... or run the pump in series with the new electric one. Why don't you want to reconnect it, not enough space for the belts? or another reason? I think I missed that bit. Oh, me thinks you will fall foul of bureaucracy. If I recall my Kit Car magazines of old, the heavy mechanical components have to be used, engine, gearbox, differential, such that a key percentage of the original mechanics are maintained. In your case neither the Scorpio's engine, nor gearbox are retained... I may well be wrong, but I suspect you will may not even be able to retain the registration, so you'd be looking at a Q plate. If you can get away with just registering it as a Scorpio with an engine change, you'd better nip over to Hollywood and get Stevie Wonder his driving license back... Still it is worth a try... just ring them up and ask? All these agencies are supposed to be helpful, even if it is difficult to find the one person who knows what you're asking about. I would sort it out before trying for the SVA test, though. If they find a technicality there, they will just fail the car (untested), turn you away and keep the money. Its all good fun, isn't it? Yours, David.
Appreciated! The problem is that the water pump is driven from a separate drive to the dynamo thingy, which means another belt and something to tension it with, and also i don't have much space.. Which is why I thought I would just notify a change of engine, (so its registered with the 5.3l V12) then hit then with a body swap, a bit like an MR2 with a 355 body kit Got the ABS working brilliantly now, brakes are fab, well you can't push the car with teh pedal depreseed
