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is the bubble due to burst?

Discussion in 'Vintage Ferrari Market' started by PFSEX, Jan 18, 2013.

  1. ferrari1971

    ferrari1971 Karting

    Jul 26, 2015
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    5 sales out of 16 Ferrari entries was not a good result . All of the sales were close to 10% below low estimates. It will be interesting to see how the reserves change prior to August sales events.
     
  2. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    too many auctions and too many mediocre cars
     
  3. ferrari1971

    ferrari1971 Karting

    Jul 26, 2015
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    Santa Barbara , Ca.
    F40 25 year old car 15kmi,Just serviced by excellent top rated mechanic.
    2007 599 10 year old car m nice upgrades $8k worth of wheels, 12kmi
    2003 575 stunning example very rare livery ,. 11kmi ,
    2011 GTO 2kmi ,
    1989 BLK/ BLK Mondial 19kmi celebrity owned (michael douglas ex wife) I


    How are these mediocre cars? To me sub 500 mile 15 year old cars are a nightmare to run.
     
  4. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    That's the definition of mediocre. From the pics I can tell those 599 and f40 wld never make it to my consideration for my collection. If I saw them in person I'm sure I'd be surprised people paid what they did. F40 with aftermarket parts and a ghetto radio job deserves a premium? What's special about the mondial? Maybe I'm missing something.
     
  5. roma1280

    roma1280 F1 Rookie
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  6. Platini 289

    Platini 289 Karting

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  7. SupercarGuru

    SupercarGuru F1 Rookie
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    Exactly. Most collectors we sell blue chip cars to DO NOT desire ANY sort of project when spending that kind of money...
     
  8. technom3

    technom3 F1 Rookie
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    F40 had 16k miles and rumor swirlling around it was needed close to 100k to correct between mods and fully fully address everything in the service and make the car 100%

    575 F1... 11k miles... You can buy that car for around 100-115k all day long depending on color service and condition. Rare livery just means not popular paint color. Livery is something it wears... this is just wearing a coat of paint. Color isnt collectible enough to outweigh peoples preference for red tan... or black red... etc...

    11 GTO... don't have anything really to say about that... other than... its silver.

    07 599? Well... single digit mile cars have been just sitting and sitting and sitting and sitting... not selling and not selling and not selling... putting mods on the car is a detractor. Mods do not help and they hinder interest. I would have zero interest in a car even with aftermarket wheels. Even though they are easy to change... I want nothing to do with that. These are collector auctions and this car just wasn't a collector sample

    The mongral... unless its Nicole Brown Simpsons... I don't think anyone cares whos car it is. Its a great car... but an undesired model... plane and simple. Most people would rather spend there money on a different car before they considered buying a mongral. At that price point... you have quite a bit of choice... The mongral should never be used as evidence to say the market is up or down for Ferraris... just mongrals.
     
  9. technom3

    technom3 F1 Rookie
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    THIS! Truer words have not been spoken.

    If you want top dollar for your car... the buyer wants a top car.

    If you don't have a top car... don't expect top dollar.

    The big auction every month seems to dwindle down the top cars. Many people are holding the really great cars. The 8/10 and unders can make the rounds... but the 9/10 10/10s honestly... people aren't really shaking them loose... and when they do its CERTAINLY not at an auctions america even running under the RM banner...

    The will be sold in monterey or in scottsdale... or... brokered... quietly and privately

    This recent sale like the new port russo auction doesn't mean ****... and its pretty much canon fodder to Monterrey. Its auction houses not wanting to give up the chance of selling more cars... and in good weather.
     
  10. Rory J

    Rory J Formula Junior

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  11. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    Super_Dave posted the above statement over a year ago (Feb 2016) when the Dow was at 16,000 and the Nasdaq at 4,200.

    Just wanted to keep tabs...Carry on.
     
  12. davemqv

    davemqv F1 Rookie

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    #3138 davemqv, Jul 16, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2017

    As the proud owner of a Mondial, I agree that they shouldn't be used as indicators of the overall Ferrari Market. They are idiosyncratic and appeal to educated people who love them for what they are, or uneducated people who see them as a way to get into Ferrari ownership for little money. The latter group are usually disappointed and would do better to save up and spend more on a 360 or something.

    However, referring to a car that many of us love as a "mongral" is lame and disrespectful. I mean, I know you say it's a great car, but you're simultaneously trashing it at the same time. And unless you're trying to play off the name with little success (I'd at least capitalize the "M"in that case), it's spelled mongrel.

    Come on man!
     
  13. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    Let's face it; the truth is many people share technom3's view. That the Mondial is one of the 'worst cars on earth.'

    It is an absolute fact that the 'mongrel' as he calls it is not a blue chip car and is relatively undesirable compared to the other Ferrari cars.

    It is also true that the Mondial is an affordable Ferrari that has the same exact drivetrain as the 308/328/348 and goes just as fast and sounds exactly the same, the same gated shifter, and handles better than all of them.

    If it weren't for folks like technom3, I wouldn't have been able to get my car for next to nothing compared to other Ferrari (and parts). So I find myself in the peculiar position to be thankful for those negative sentiments.
     
  14. technom3

    technom3 F1 Rookie
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    Its an old habit and no disrespect meant.... of course I totally understand how it could be taken that way. Its a term of endearment in my head. I actually really like the cars as previously stated.

    So... yes I love that

    M
    O
    N
    G
    R
    E
    L
    !
     
  15. davemqv

    davemqv F1 Rookie

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    Ha! :)
     
  16. technom3

    technom3 F1 Rookie
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    Not to turn this into politics... but I honestly felt in october-ish that the market was getting very close to a collapse.

    Everything was stale. I knew people in January and Feb who laid off 25% of their workers and kept letting people go and these were friends and business of all different industries in various parts of the country. For me it was a pretty good sample.

    In the summer my industry died. I actually stopped advertising because it was virtually worthless (now in defense I sold a couple of cars for record prices in Monterey but they were the absolute top tier cars... the elite.... best of the best of their kind). My phone barely rang at all until about 3 days after the election... then there was a small flury and then dead again until christmas.

    Since Feb roughly things have been great and I know many people have hired people back. I know many people who have bought homes... homes here in Arizona are selling well etc... It seems like a healthy thing right now and I always think the sky is falling... So I am either REALLY wrong or things are so well.. that even me the negative nancy can see that things are good.

    Please understand I tried to keep politics out of this and I think I did an alright job. I am not saying anyone is responsible for anything I am just giving my experience of my mood and the market over the las 12-16 months
     
  17. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    Hi Justin,

    Thanks for your response. Let me just give context. Nothing wrong with stating an opinion, in fact, that's what forums are for, and definitely within the framework of this thread and this is after all the Internet!

    My beef with Super_Dave and Brad Williams on this thread was not that they state their opinion, nor that their views are counter to my beliefs (I have echoed some their sentiments)

    My umbrage has always been from that they take a position of CERTITUDE. Not that I *think* X will happen, but X *WILL* happen.

    I respect all positions, especially contrarian views. I will, however, challenge *FIRM* prognostications.

    My post above was simply to keep tabs. SuperDave has said last year that we are on the verge of economic collapse. We did not experience one, on the contrary, the markets have gone up tremendously since his call.

    Brad Williams on the context of Ferrari cars has been saying that a crash* is right around the corner: for six years now. I don't see pristine Dinos for less than 100K

    *I define a crash as reversion to the long term mean, not a 10-20% correction from the triple digit gains of the last ten years

    Let me put it another way:
    If I said tomorrow there would be in 9.0 Earthquake in California, so short any Insurance companies now! And of course, it didn't happen - what would you think?
     
  18. cheesey

    cheesey Formula 3

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    #3144 cheesey, Jul 18, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2017
    Anyone who thinks there will be a substantive reversal of F car prices will have a long wait. Prices on everything, consumables and collectables, have advanced beyond a simple reversal. Currency volumes have advanced ( by gov't printing ) to where one needs to look at the value of what is being sold rather than raw numerical value priced. Reversal to historic price levels would require the economies of the world to re price everything... and that is not going to happen, short of the economies imploding. The low volume collector cars are locked in by their scarcity. Current production cars, by sheer volume produced, most likely will not see the appreciation of the past, or at least need to go through attrition reducing the herd of available cars. This thread has proven that chicken little is wrong and the sky is not falling
     
  19. Ferrari 308 GTB

    Ferrari 308 GTB F1 Veteran

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    North Korea,but that is also very unlikely to happen.
     
  20. Jumprun

    Jumprun Karting

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  21. technom3

    technom3 F1 Rookie
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    Thank you for the excellent reply.

    Believe it or not... we are on the same page. I am usually a negative nancy and tend to think the sky is falling (just because I typically have bad luck).

    I totally agree with you... I also can not stand when people post opinions as facts and say this WILL happen or that WILL happen.

    May is the word.... or likely will happen... or could happen...

    I get aggravated by oracles of the internet and masters of markets posting on internet forums. Any and all of this is just no more than anyones best guess. To say otherwise is foolish... and now... he is looking foolish.

    I also tend to think that those who say the economy is going to **** the bed over car loans are hype con artists. Not to derail this thread... but the subprime car market isn't going to destabilized the market like housing did... it is no where near the same thing and people are hyping it in the same way. Everyone is now hypersensitive to the word subprime and people are using that special word to just envoke emotion and gain views of an article or piece. Its ridiculous.

    Anyways... yes... Market is up... cars are still doing very well.... and gold... well... gold... aint doing so hot.
     
  22. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    Thank you for your reply! Agreed 100%
     
  23. Bradwilliams

    Bradwilliams F1 Rookie
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    Troll on Chua!! Still loving those bogus facts of yours! What has it been two straight years of trolling now? Exciting life you must live!
     
  24. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    Opposite of zerohedge.com is nevergoesdown.com -- same bird, different color & a broken clock is eventually right for a minute.

    You and your buddy Super_Dave made many a bold proclamations and financial advice that turned out wrong..way wrong....guess you're just surprised somebody kept tabs.
     

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