Spoken like someone who sells used exotics for a living... Classic cars are a fashion statement today. They aren't even driven anymore. It's like having a painting and keeping it in a bank vault. They are only good for bragging rights, trailering them to shows, and making a buck on resale. At some point the market will turn. Not long ago it was Vintage furniture. Now it's art. Next it will be....
Really? http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/144931837-post4062.html & http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/144927392-post4060.html & http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/144906779-post3943.html & http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/144906800-post3945.html & http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/144907133-post3947.html We have a little thing going on in the Downdraft thread dispelling that old stereotypical notion I have to say there is a theme amongst a number of the commentators here, who can guess what it is?
You've been screaming for a collapse in the financial markets for as long as I can remember lol. As radical as it sounds, I think Larry Fink is onto something. Have you seen what new condominium projects look like in those cities? 300sf. studios... 500 sf. one bedrooms... They are definitely not building them like they used to. Oh wait, where have I heard that before? Right... the car (as an asset class) market.
Dont have a dog in this "fight" but anecdotal evidence is hardly an argument for anything. I think someone would be hard pressed to prove the majority of the cars produced are driven to much extent(>1000 miles/year) if at all in todays market.
Made my call for the market to start weakening up last summer in may, so that makes it just a tad over a year. Give it a bit longer before making too much fun. Don't exaggerate too much
Totally agree. I simply wanted to show that generalizations are not entirely correct, and I truly do happen to know many people who really get out and use their classic cars! Sadly they are indeed a small minority.
Just so everyone here is clear (because it seems most participants on this forum don't have any actual insight into, or experience with, the "art market"), the prices of Lucien Smith paintings (or whatever other flipper pump-and-dump garbage was hot that month) has nothing to do with the historical, blue-chip art market. This was crap that certain dealers and speculators were buying (in many cases straight out of the artists' studios, as guys like Niels Kantor and Stefan Simchowitz did for years) for pennies and flipping to the uninitiated for huge gains. The few losses Niels will take now in dumping his final remaining dregs will only make a small dent in the years of ill-gotten gains as a result of the run-up in bleeding-edge contemporary (so-called "emerging" art), based on nothing other than hype. The market for modern and classic historical post-war material continues steadily, despite the expectations of the press to the contrary. Michael
The daily or heavy users always were a minority, and always will be, reserved use keeps it special and with sense of occasion. So many Ferraris have a lower number of thousands of miles on them than the years they exist, often 80% of them driven in the first decade. They are for show, for weekends away with your spouse or girl, special trips, quick blasts, and to impress friends. Lots of fun.
+1 Of course Joe has a lot to lose to all those he promised values will continue up and the ability to make a living selling cars and not eating Top Ramen while doing it if the market crashes. My $750k comment on Diablos yes in 10 or 15 years but not now, once this bubble bursts I am sure there will be another after in 10 years.
This is exactly the point, the most mundane cars are not "collectible",even though they may be pimped as so, they are not a alloy 275GTB.
This has extreme similarities to the "collector" car market over the last 18 months IMHO. This paragraph reads as a strong argument for the market similarities, not differences...
Not really. Those artists are still producing the paintings mentioned that were priced up. Classic cars have a definite supply and potentially dwindling. Perhaps you can compare it to paying over sticker for a brand new GT3 RS, which Porsche can produce more of, but not to buying a classic Ferrari or other.
I never operate that way and some posting here are clients of mine who know that I have consistently been an outspoken proponent of caution & prudence in the marketplace and this is when prices were on the rise. My posts prove it, and we never promise anything about values. Your comments on Diablo values are documented elsewhere as predicting they would be $1m cars in other threads, and here stating here that you "I don't expect Diablos to be $1m cars". Complete contradiction, period There's just no way to spin yourself out of that one. It's apparent you simply say whatever is convenient on the day. The trouble is, you can't remember what you said previously
Ok Joe manipulate my words whatever makes you feel better, I never said they will be $750k now or near future Your face now in this turmoil of the market which has stalled and you mention everything is rosy on your outlook says enough and quick to pounce on any naysayers that don't agree lol, car salesman talk
You are right, you never said $750k, you said $1 million! No manipulation whatsoever, your statement on FChat. I think the 20-30% reduction is great! It allows deals to happen, I have no problem with the correction with certain makes & models.
Thanks, I try and enjoy the business when values are on the way up, flat, or on the way down, each stage represents nice opportunities.
No, the real historical "art market" is a longstanding market with established values and collecting trends that go back decades or, in some cases, centuries. It could more easily be likened to the market for Bugatti cars or classic, early Ferraris than the that for recent, upstart market darlings. Michael
