Is stainless steel a viable electric conductor | FerrariChat

Is stainless steel a viable electric conductor

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by jacques, Aug 18, 2012.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. jacques

    jacques Formula Junior

    May 23, 2006
    877
    Los Angeles/Florida
    Is stainless steel a viable conductor of electricity in fuse boxes or eleswhere in automotive curcuitry as compared to copper and gold? Thank you. Jq.
     
  2. LightGuy

    LightGuy Four Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 4, 2004
    44,487
    Texas
    Full Name:
    David
    I've seen stainless used as contacts but copper is the norm.
    In non-critical short distance applications its probably OK.
     
  3. Ney

    Ney F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 20, 2004
    7,336
  4. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    9,631
    From the supplied table, Steels are 50X worse than copper.
     
  5. jacques

    jacques Formula Junior

    May 23, 2006
    877
    Los Angeles/Florida
    Thank you NEY..the chart is outstanding. Jq.
     
  6. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner Professional Ferrari Technician

    Dec 29, 2006
    18,221
    Twin Cities
    Full Name:
    Tim Keseluk
    Stainless steel is a piss-poor conductor of both electricity and heat (that is why stainless frying pans have a copper or aluminum bottom to spread the heat evenly). It also has a tendency to work-harden and will become brittle and break if repeatedly bent back and forth as is sometimes typical with wiring. It is pretty hard to improve on copper without spending ridiculous money for exotic metals.
     
  7. Far Out

    Far Out F1 Veteran

    Feb 18, 2007
    9,768
    Stuttgart, Germany
    Full Name:
    Florian
    The "backbone" of the Audi A8's wiring harness is IIRC made out of a long flat and bent aluminium part. I read an article by the company who produces that stuff in ATZ journal, awesome stuff.
     
  8. smg2

    smg2 F1 World Champ
    Sponsor

    Apr 1, 2004
    16,052
    Dumpster Fire #31
    Full Name:
    SMG
    and after have owned an A8L, I can tell you that probably wasn't the best decision, the dang thing should've been called christine! the number of electrical gremlins and my favorite, self running components had me wondering if I needed a priest instead!

    If memory serves me correctly BMW back in the late 70's used aluminum plating in the wiring harness, didn't turn out so well a decade or so later.

    the best elements are; Silver, Copper, Gold and Lead. beyond that you get into exotic materials for components, nichrome, tantalum, tungsten, thorium etc..
     
  9. pippo

    pippo Formula 3

    Sep 25, 2005
    1,913
    FL
    Full Name:
    pippopotemus
    I agree on your first 3 picks, but lead? Id remove lead from that list. It has a low conductivity. At least, by 2 powers of 10. Lead is good for a suit during a nuclear war.......
     
  10. Jamie H

    Jamie H Formula 3
    Owner

    Aug 28, 2009
    2,425
    Puslinch,ON
    Full Name:
    Jamie
    GM used an aluminum wiring harness for the rear lighting assemblies for about 15 years, late 70's to early 90's. Probably worked will in Arizona, New Mexico and Nevada but it didn't work well here in the "corrosion belt'
     
  11. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner Professional Ferrari Technician

    Dec 29, 2006
    18,221
    Twin Cities
    Full Name:
    Tim Keseluk
    Aluminum is a poor choice for wiring. The oxide that coats the surface is not a good conductor even though the base metal below the surface is. The result is a lot of intermittent problems and in some instances such as when aluminum was widely used in home wiring, FIRE. Today, aluminum wiring requires special devices and flux on connections to keep resistance to a minimum.

    Copper, on the other hand is still very conductive even when oxidized.
     
  12. jacques

    jacques Formula Junior

    May 23, 2006
    877
    Los Angeles/Florida
    Correct..We tried it in the studios as an expensive experience for our heavy distributon 4/0 cable... turned out a total and dangerous disaster. The heat build-up in the cable would melt the solder joints to the point of catching fire and the cable when cooled down would anneal into what ever shape in was in.
    as you can just imagine..that when over like a fart in church. Jq.
     
  13. James_Woods

    James_Woods F1 World Champ

    May 17, 2006
    12,755
    Dallas, Tx.
    Full Name:
    James K. Woods
    It is also barely magnetic.
     
  14. Crowndog

    Crowndog F1 Veteran

    Jul 16, 2011
    7,042
    Fairfield,Pa
    Full Name:
    Robert
    Curious as to the application that you were planning on?
     
  15. CaptOharry

    CaptOharry Formula Junior

    Jan 4, 2009
    763
    Green Cove Spgs FL
    Full Name:
    Harry Welch
    As a Electric Lineman in the Fl Keys,the majority of Switches,Bushings, Fused Cutouts,and Constuction related Parts were made out of Stainless Steel,due to the Corrosive Atmosphere The Atlantic Ocean Hurricanes and tropical storms we Encounered.
     
  16. smg2

    smg2 F1 World Champ
    Sponsor

    Apr 1, 2004
    16,052
    Dumpster Fire #31
    Full Name:
    SMG
    while I'd agree if the use of lead was for wiring due to lead being higher in resistance, but it's ability to abate corrosion and esp it's chemical reaction makes it useful in batteries. it's also used in solder as well, and the Pb free solder has a BIG whisker issue.
     
  17. 412fan

    412fan Karting

    Aug 1, 2005
    150
    Northern Plains
    Power line conductors are aluminum, much because power loss is P = I^2*R. That is, you can decrease the power loss quadratically by decreasing the current, which you do by increasing the tension ('voltage').

    That option is not available in car electrics, but for low-conducting metals another option is to increase the diameter of the conductor.
     
  18. jacques

    jacques Formula Junior

    May 23, 2006
    877
    Los Angeles/Florida
    Since I started this thread as a quest, the response has been simlpy marvelous, and truly informative to me, and I am certain to many here on the forum.


    the reason for my initial post, is that I was seeking a suitable material as a "bridge" between to fuse positions on a fusebox design that I've working on. The distance is short..less than one inch, carrying a maximum 40 amps at start-up for a period of 4-5 seconds for fan motors, fuel pumps. The goal is to rid my car..1980 400i Ser. 1, of those "blessed" german type fuses and the spring type contacts that weaken with time, and also corrode. The ATC and ATO fuses are the proper way to go. So..the decision is to install the stainless steel bridges on the prototype and throw the juice to it and let 'er buck. We'll soon see. Thank you all again.Jq.
     
  19. smg2

    smg2 F1 World Champ
    Sponsor

    Apr 1, 2004
    16,052
    Dumpster Fire #31
    Full Name:
    SMG
    I would not use stainless in that application as the resistance of stainless in a DC application of 40amperes. copper is better suited to that task, esp since it's in the circuit for those high inductive transient spike ampere loads. copper scrap in various gauges can be picked up from many metal suppliers in socal cheap, try a local IMS -industrial metal supply, I get lots of scrap from them. copper sheet and bars for the spot price per lb.

    as point of comparison, nichrome wire which is nickle chrome steel is used for large variable resistance coils. not a good idea where amperage will be high and frequency zero.
     
  20. Ehamilton

    Ehamilton F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 13, 2010
    2,518
    Durham, NC; USA
    Full Name:
    Eric Hamilton
    How are you going to make the electrical connections to the stainless? For pieces that short, the quality of these connections will be at least as important as the resistance of the bridge itself.

    If you really mean "prototype" and not "something I'll put in my car and expect to work for months or years" stainless may work. But for anything real, I'd seriously prefer copper and would not use stainless if I had any other choice at all.

    One easy and not unreasonably expensive source of copper is 12-gauge solid-core household wiring - strip the insulation and you have a nice ready-to-solder length of copper that's good for 100+ amps in 1" lengths. And if you're any sort of DIYer you probably already have a few feet of it lying around the house looking for a use, so the price is right.

    If Birdman speaks up in this thread... Listen to him.
     
  21. Crowndog

    Crowndog F1 Veteran

    Jul 16, 2011
    7,042
    Fairfield,Pa
    Full Name:
    Robert
    +100
     
  22. jacques

    jacques Formula Junior

    May 23, 2006
    877
    Los Angeles/Florida
    Copper it is, then. Since my post this morning you've shone me the light. I found copper in the exact size needed. This is what I love about this forum..let reason prevail...(usually). Thank you all once again. Jq.
     
  23. jm3

    jm3 F1 Rookie

    Oct 3, 2002
    4,364
    United States
    Full Name:
    JM3
    #23 jm3, Sep 4, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I have used brass for the same purpose. It can be cleanly soldered to the existing brass terminals is part of why I like it.

    I have attached a pic of a hidden auxiliary fusebox in a restoration, that uses hidden micro relays with all original wiring, and a supplemental hidden 12v "bus" wire (from the starter terminal) to the hidden fusebox.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  24. smg2

    smg2 F1 World Champ
    Sponsor

    Apr 1, 2004
    16,052
    Dumpster Fire #31
    Full Name:
    SMG
    well Jim you're kinda cheating though :D JK
    C36000? if so that's 61.5% Cu. ~35% Zn, so it's still a very good conductor with less resistance than iron and steel. But yes brass is a decent alternative to copper for buss-bars and switch points. The best is Silver, but who's got that kind of money!

    On brass, the composition can become critical depending on voltage and amperage load of the circuit. unknown values may cause safety concerns. brass has a lot of variations and many different elements added into it. voltage drop due to increased resistance will cause an increase in the amp load, as the metal increases in temperature due to the amperage draw and wattage dissipation the resistance will increase as well, think slow burn fuse.
     
  25. finnerty

    finnerty F1 World Champ

    May 18, 2004
    10,406
    #25 finnerty, Sep 4, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2012
    Okay, I'll play Johnny come lately and pee all over everything :p

    But, seriously, I don't know what your application is exactly, but have you also taken into consideration the structural loads / demands, if any ???

    Copper, and most of its alloys, are rather weak structurally (both in strength and in stiffness), especially in fatigue tolerance. So, if your piece is going to see any significant loads or cyclic loading, you may want to go with a "tough" alloy, such as BeCu (still an excellent electrical & thermal conductor) ---- or, at the very least, choose a high temper Copper / Copper alloy......

    .......just sayin' ;)
     

Share This Page