Is an F50 worth it?

It really depends on what you loved about the F40...I have owned a F40 and driven other people's F50s. The F40 is a unique experience and I still remember its explosive burst of acceleration, spinning its wheels even in 4th on some slippery UK roads. It still feels incredibly quick and it handles very intuitively if you watch not to get it on boost mid-corner or on a slippery roundabout. Build quality is rubbish, avoid the adjustable suspension at all costs (mine kept failing and had to be reset) and I don't admire it as an engineering achievement as it is a very basic construction.
The F50 is a different thing...Probably as quick, but doesn't feel explosive, best manual gear change of any car I have driven, detuned F1 engine bolted directly to the chassis (lots of vibration too), best handling of any of the Ferrari supercars -LaF excluded as I haven't driven it- (beats my 288 and Enzo too) and better engine note...I am not crazy about the looks, I hate the 1 hour work needed to remove the hardtop and I dread the day that parts for the digital dash become unavailable.

I miss the F40, but I wish I'd bought and kept an F50...Now they are all out of my price range, so I'm back to dreaming! You can't go wrong with either one, but the F50 is worth double the money as far as I m concerned

 

Welcome to FChat! I am fortunate to own both beauties. And your question is almost impossible to answer because they are so different. The F40 is a hilarious night out with the lads. The F50 is strictly dinner for two with someone very special.

I love the F50, it's significantly the sweeter, smoother more complex of the two. And that sound above 6.5K. Incredible, V12 racing perfection. I also think the F50 looks epic with its roof on. It's time has yet to come.

Because the F50's V12 is race derived the action is at the top end. She will invite you to explore her. The F40 is crude, its gear change is awful compared to the F50, it also feels like a kit car having driven the F50. But you will piss your pants when the turbos are on full boost. Torque is like a sledge-hammer.

I went F40, then F50. I would do the same again. The two are wonderful sisters, very different in personality but 100% the same Ferrari magic. Enjoy!

 

It depends on what you would enjoy more long term. The F50 is the better drivers car. The best way to describe a F40 is a "comic book". The acceleration from zero to "POW!!". Some things are disastrously bad. And the crazy looks are 100% boy racer.

 

I've owned both and sold the F50 after a couple years, still have the F40. The F40 is by far the more driver's car, it takes skill. The F50 is easy to drive, but I didn't really like driving it. It felt big and heavy, but that's just my opinion. Its a great car but IMO not worth the price.

 

The F50 is a car for a true connaisseur, a Formula One with a body and yes, with the roof on it looks truly sensational.

Marcel Massini

 

Start this video at 1m 10secs and tell me you don't want this in your life

http://youtu.be/AsXTS0hDxjE

 

Pretty much this.

Buy an F50 and open the exhaust up. It's the best sounding engine in a road car, probably ever.

 

I have a foot in both camps and I must disagree with you. The F40 requires skill to handle the wallop of torque when the turbos wake up. That's what makes her so much fun. A 458 Speciale
which I also have would however leave the F40 for dust.

The F50 requires considerable skill to harness everything, to conduct the orchestra, and when you do she absolutely flies. If you drive an F50 below 4K rpm and/or in traffic, she's asleep. If I had to chase a Speciale, and I had the choice of an F40 or F50, it would take the F50 every time.

Is it worth its current value? Definitely. Mine is 280 out 349. She is a masterpiece, they will never make a car like her again, and along with her 348 sisters, I sincerely believe her best days lie ahead.

 

Yeah but very few F50s sound like this. Most I've seen are stock which isn't an impressive sound at all. If anyone wants their F50 to sound like that let me know, I still have a full set of tubi headers and mufflers. You really need the headers to make the car come alive. Otherwise as others have said, it feels like its sleeping unless you're in the upper revs. For a non-turbo car its has the hugest lag ever.

 

There really isn't much skill needed unless you're talking about how to manage the factory understeer setup.

Any modern car will take it easily, you dont need a speciale, you could do it with a 911 turbo. Just sayin.

Its really a car about style and rarity. Its not a track car, nor a GT car. Its an average sports car with above average looks. Thats about it. It didnt set any records or win any races. Just my opinion i realize people that love then will defend their opinions and that totally fine.

I tracked mine several times and had the factory maintain it, there was nothing wrong with it before the comments start flying.

if i wanted to leave either in the dust im sure my 911 or 675 or p1 (or yes F40) would do it but like I said its not about that.

 

I have a tubi set-up and I completely agree with you on transforming the sound.

Just curious to understand what you mean by lag here. The real power delivery is high up the rpm range but I have always found the throttle response is good regardless of revs.

 

I have been reading up lately on the variable valve inlet set up of the 550/575/612 and how that fills the torque gap in the curve of the mid range, did the F50 engine have a similar arrangement?

 

Kind of.

The intake plenum for each bank is divided by electronically actuated butterfly valve
which closes at low rpms allowing each bank of 6 cyls to operate as two L3s. The resonance within each half plenum is supposed to improve airflow and low-end torque. At
high rpm the butterfly opens to provide a single plenum to all 6 cylinders optimising high end torque. All controlled by the Motronic ECU.

I think there is a similar set up for the exhaust as well.

I think this is different from from the Honda VTEC type system of the same era. Not familiar with the more modern Ferrari V12s, but I think the F50 set up is pretty basic.

For me, it is still a peaky engine, and the all the fun is to be had in the last 3000rpm.

 

Other than marketing BS, can somebody prove the race derived nature of the F50 v12 engine please.

It is 4.7 litres and the race engines of the time were 3.5 litres. Bore is 85mm and stroke is 69mm ... the Tipo 036 engine it is reportedly derived from is also 65 degree v12. Do they share the same bore? It is impossible (?) to find out the bore of F1 engines unfortunately.

I guess if it shared the same bore and had a new block and crank to handle the longer stroke that's close enough.

Of course the F50 engine has chain driven camshafts and normal valve springs, the Tipo 036 surely would use gears (?) and pneumatic valve springs. The F50 engine is also 50 kg's heavier which is 1/3rd heavier again at 198kg's versus 141kg's.

I think the link to the race engine is weakish, like the Alfa Romeo Montreal supposedly having a detuned T33 race engine, which is simply not true.

I guess if the designer of the F50 engine started with a Tipo 036 engine and made a million changes it is still derived from it ... just like the Montreal engine after a couple of million changes ...
Pete

 

Thanks for the info, similar reasoning to the 575 etc but via a different method then. They make use of a third shared central plenum which opens up via a row of butterfly valves to each bank only at low revs/low % throttle or post 5500 rpm which then serves to lengthen the inlet tract once past the mid range. The Ferrari F1 engine used adjustable length inlet trumpets so I thought the F50 version may have gone the same route. Amazing to think such tech is now over 20 years old Problem with the 575 is the butterfly valves are either open or closed, no variance as its controlled by the ecu via a vacuum valve. I am going to tinker with mine by maybe incorporating something in the vacuum path to vary the vacuum and thus the degre to which the butterfly valves are open, as I understand there is a noticeable spike in the torque curve when they go from fully closed to fully open at 5500 rpm. It sounds like the F50 set up could benefit from a similar approach.

Sent from my SM-A310F using Tapatalk

 

There is definitely a transformation of character (torque/sound) around 5500k in the F50 engine presumably linked to the butterflies operating, but nothing quite as savage as the turbos kicking in at F40 at 3800rpm.

Your plan is sounds very interesting. Following your other thread - can't wait to see the results.

 

Thanks Red, the first 4 cylinders are now sat firmly in the back of the cabin! not a pretty sight at the moment and it could prove to be a bit noisy as well

I was thinking something like an amal valve as per turbo bleed off needs but in reverse to control vacuum rather than pressure.

All Heath Robinson ideas at the moment, better to practice on my old bus than a F50 for now

 

F50 every time for me, the best car ferrari has ever made. (never driven a LA to be fair)

 

Totally agree. Also, on the road (as opposed to track), once you hit the curves, the F50 is hugely enjoyable and faster than the F40, thanks to the beautifully responsive and progressive engine. On the straights, F40 boost wins the day for putting a grin on your face. The understeer that is often associated with the F50 is a noticeable on a track but hasn't been an issue on the road.

To me the F50 is a under-appreciated gem of a drivers car. In an era of Mac F1, and as a result of not visibly moving the headline performance needle over the F40, it didn't get the reputation it deserves. As the modern era LE car with the second lowest production, the downside, even at these valuations, feels at least somewhat protected.

 

What I mean by lag is the F50 has virtually no power in the lower RPMs. Unlike a V12 in a 550 or 575 for example, you can drive those cars all day long in 3rd gear. Even from a stop. V12s are famous for their low down torque which F50 lacks.

 

Got it. Totally agree. With both F40 and F50 you really work the gears to keep it in the torque range, and the I find the F50's gear shift the slicker of the two by some margin.

 

Having spent time in both, I'd go F50. Like any Ferrari, it has its own character, so hard to really compare to its predecessor or successor. That said, the lower production run, the open top, and V12 are major factors in my leaning.

A V8 turbo in a Ferrari was a bit of a novelty before, but now it's the standard. Also, who knows how long until the V12 goes the way of the Dodo. Plus, I think time has been kinder to the looks of the F50, which used to get a lot of criticism in comparison to the F40.

Both are what dreams are made of, and while the F40 always seems to win the F40 vs. F50 debate, I vote F50.

 

https://youtu.be/nalzF9SLt_c

Hope this helps

 

Why not consider a Carrera GT ?

Open Top, Manual gearbox and a whaling F1 sound plus its faster and easier to service than an F50 and no cam belt changes.