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Is a Dino considered a Ferrari ?

Discussion in '206/246' started by zvdxb, Jun 10, 2015.

  1. 2GT

    2GT Formula 3

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    While the U.S.-model driver's door jamb D.O.T. manufacturer's label may not settle the question of whether or not a Dino "is" a Ferrari (see, Clinton, William Jefferson), it ought to end the claim that the Dino was "made by FIAT." Having said that, if a person is determined to consider a Dino to be either a Ferrari or a FIAT, no one will disabuse him or her of that notion. Fred
     
  2. abstamaria

    abstamaria F1 Rookie
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    I “think” Ferrari “intended” to make Dino a separate sub-brand under Ferrari .. .[/QUOTE]

    I’m inclined to believe that. Our Dinos carry (almost) nary a Ferrari badge.

    But why? The common answer is that Enzo Ferrari did not want his name associated with a car with only six cylinders, an inferior car. “Call it ‘Petunia’ or whatever,” they imagine Enzo talking to his staff, “call it after what’s-his-name.”

    True? Enzo didn’t mind having a Ferrari badge on the Sharknose, which won him his first F1 Constructor’s title. Dino’s death devastated him, and he mourned his son and visited his grave everyday. In Ferrari’s office, seen here in this 1965 photo by the great Julius Weitmann, the only ornament is a picture of Dino, there on that far wall.

    Did Enzo not want his name sullied by the six-cylinder engines his son helped design? Or did he simply want to ensure that his dead son’s name would live forever on these lovely cars, without the distraction of a Ferrari badge?

    Well, Enzo carried the secret with him, so you decide. Your guess is as good as mine.

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  3. 4CamGT

    4CamGT Formula 3

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    #128 4CamGT, Dec 29, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2019
    I’m inclined to believe that. Our Dinos carry (almost) nary a Ferrari badge.

    But why? The common answer is that Enzo Ferrari did not want his name associated with a car with only six cylinders, an inferior car. “Call it ‘Petunia’ or whatever,” they imagine Enzo talking to his staff, “call it after what’s-his-name.”

    True? Enzo didn’t mind having a Ferrari badge on the Sharknose, which won him his first F1 Constructor’s title. Dino’s death devastated him, and he mourned his son and visited his grave everyday. In Ferrari’s office, seen here in this 1965 photo by the great Julius Weitmann, the only ornament is a picture of Dino, there on that far wall.

    Did Enzo not want his name sullied by the six-cylinder engines his son helped design? Or did he simply want to ensure that his dead son’s name would live forever on these lovely cars, without the distraction of a Ferrari badge?

    Well, Enzo carried the secret with him, so you decide. Your guess is as good as mine.

    View attachment 2872931 [/QUOTE]


    Andres, I think that’s a correct perspective. “Dino, almost a Ferrari” could have been a Freudian remark by Enzo. Could it have been Enzo’s love and admiration for Dino to eventually become his successor? The “Dino” was the ultimate tribute for the remembrance of his beloved son.
     
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  4. Rory J

    Rory J Formula Junior

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    While this may have been an issue when a Dino was a relatively inexpensive car, with values where they are now the question is: who really cares? A single Dino's sale proceeds could fill a five-car garage with "real" Ferraris. I can't imagine anyone is questioning a Dino purchase based on whether it is or is not a "real" Ferrari. A Dino is simply a wonderful little sports car the likes of which the Ferrari factory will never produce again.
     
  5. tx246

    tx246 F1 Veteran
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    If anyone wanted to know Ferrari’s (the company - whatever the official name has been through the years at any given time) thoughts today, just ask to have your Dino Classiche’d and that will end any speculation on the official position.

    However, let’s take a look back in time....

    What seems to have started this whole debate is one of the initial Dino 206 Brochures, an advertising piece. Factory Literature piece 20/68. This is NOT the first Dino brochure (15/67), but the second (I may have missed one).

    The brochure says in Italian “ quasi una Ferrari” and has the English translation “almost a Ferrari”.

    This verbiage was used again on the first 246 brochure (29/69), but the only real difference in the brochures are the technical specs, all the pics and ad splashes are the same. Basically, a quick update of specs using the same/previous piece.

    By the time the first “Real” 246 brochure arrives, the format and wording are way different. This is Brochure 40/70.

    It now says (in English) “proof of the constant development of the smaller Ferrari cars”

    By the time the GTS comes, brochure 65/72 states “another successful product of the Ferrari limited series range”

    Dino Ferrari was focused on smaller engines and therefore smaller cars. That has always been a hallmark of the Dino range. Whether racing cars, road cars or thought. Looking at the Dino’s before the 206 GT, they are all smaller in size.

    Enzo dedicating the Dino format to smaller cars, isn’t a snub because they aren’t V-12’s, but rather an honor for his son. Nothing more or nothing less.

    The wheels were set in motion as the Fiat transition takes place and makes sense to have a Dino line that expands Ferrari’s capacity. Fiat gets theirs and Ferrari can have his but both stand alone. As the early 70’s start to play out, the oil crisis changes the world. The previous plan for a brand, on both fronts, start to change.

    Clearly, the public wanted to buy a Ferrari and not a Dino, but was happy to buy a Ferrari Dino, so the company adjusted to not loose sales.

    The 308 GT4 was caught in limbo, but by the time the 308 GTB rolls around, we can start to see why it was no longer to be called the Dino GT/8.

    Even better, what is the Italian definition of “quasi”? I am not sure, as subtlety affects every language. In English, one accepted definition is “having some but not all of the features of” per dictionary.com. There are lots of other definitions that do not tend to pretend something is not something else, but rather a partial part of something.

    At the end of it all, I think snob appeal died away. I don’t dislike a Daytona, but it doesn’t do much for me. I have said this over the years. I still feel the same way. A Daytona (well actually a 365 GTB/4 since Ferrari never called it a Daytona in period) is a great car. However, it is really not a Daytona because a brochure didn’t call it that in period, is it?

    Just wondering....

    Shawn
     
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  6. tx246

    tx246 F1 Veteran
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  7. Rory J

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    What's cooler? A Dino 206/246 or a 308/328/328/348/355/360/430/458/488/F8? Market prices show Dino.
     
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  8. abstamaria

    abstamaria F1 Rookie
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    Many thanks, Shawn. That’s very comprehensive.
     
  9. 4CamGT

    4CamGT Formula 3

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  10. abstamaria

    abstamaria F1 Rookie
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  11. abstamaria

    abstamaria F1 Rookie
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  12. Bob Zambelli

    Bob Zambelli F1 Rookie
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    Well said, Fred - and, I might add, very few people know as much about the Dino as you do!


     
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  13. 2GT

    2GT Formula 3

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    Thanks, Bob, but you know even more about Dinos, especially mine! Fred
     
  14. yankeleh

    yankeleh Rookie
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  15. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    #140 miurasv, Feb 1, 2020
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    "Is a Dino considered a Ferrari?" Yes, a Dino is considered a Ferrari, but it is not a Ferrari. It is a Dino, a car that was made by Ferrari, and the perfect junior, but no lesser version, of the father, Ferrari.
     
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  16. Bluebottle

    Bluebottle F1 Veteran
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    Absolutely right, Fred - A Dino is a Ferrari through and through. Only pedants argue that a Dino is not a Ferrari.
     
  17. TheMayor

    TheMayor Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    As I said all my adult life -- coming from someone who owned a Dino for 15 years --

    A Dino is not a Ferrari. Its better.
     
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  18. Bluebottle

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    On cue! :D
     
  19. paulchua

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  20. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

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    [/QUOTE]

    He not only intented to make "Dino" a separate brand: he legally did.
    As said many, many times, the last batch of Right Hand Drive 308 GT4s built for the british market (= about two dozen cars) has a full 17 digit VIN which is spelled "ZDF...etc"; Ferraris have VIN starting by "ZFF....etc"; whatever you think of the filiation between Dinos and Ferraris, legally, according to the international Vehicle Reference System, "Dino" is a different brand.

    Rgds
     
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  21. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

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    Sorry to nitpick, but not true.
    At least if we do consider the three pre-production 308GTBs: all three were initially badged "Dino", there are many pictures proving that (see the 308/328 section).
    By the time the car entered production, the slow sales of the 308GT4 on the US market had convinced Ferrari that the "Dino" name was not marketable in the US, so the production 308 GTBs received "Ferrari" badges and script.
    But the pre-production 308 GTBs were indeed badged as "Dinos".

    Rgds
     
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  22. Bluebottle

    Bluebottle F1 Veteran
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    Just another example of badge engineering. In the '60s you could buy a BMC 1100 as a Morris, Austin, Riley, Wolesley, MG, or Vanden Plas. Same car, same manufacturer.
     
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  23. 2GT

    2GT Formula 3

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    Agreed, John. If the question were whether or not a Dino was ever BADGED as a Ferrari, it would answer itself. However, it can't be denied that in every respect other than marketing, a Dino is a Ferrari. My Dino is currently undergoing some refurbishing at Algar Ferrari, where it was sold when new, and from everything I have gleaned from their treatment of it (and me, as its owner), it is a Ferrari to them. As with the age old philosophical question of which came first, the chicken or the egg, this issue will never yield a definitive answer. Fred
     
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  24. Bluebottle

    Bluebottle F1 Veteran
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    At the end of the day, who gives a flying ****!!!:D
     
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  25. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    I just love that it is called a Dino. I don't think Ferrari knew it at the time, but they made such an outstanding and extremely special car in its creation.
     
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