IRL/Champ Car Merger 2007? | Page 3 | FerrariChat

IRL/Champ Car Merger 2007?

Discussion in 'Other Racing' started by RP, Feb 26, 2006.

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  1. Westworld

    Westworld Three Time F1 World Champ
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    May 18, 2004
    31,132
    That's insane to not give F1 any of the blame.

    As for an oval series, ChampCar is successful in building street circuits built on three or four day "festivals". Plus, ChampCar has a broader international plan then IRL.
     
  2. Ken

    Ken F1 World Champ

    Oct 19, 2001
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    I like that philosophy: rule bans cost more than static rules. If true, it opens the door for a more innovative racing league, or my Indy 500 dream of returning to "new" ideas like wings, turbines, traction control, computerized this and that....!

    Ken
     
  3. A.D.K.

    A.D.K. Karting

    Nov 1, 2003
    97
    Terre Haute, IN
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    Andy Klueber
    Here's a link to some pictures and story of the new Panoz DP01 on SpeedTV.com. Of the wind tunnel model

    http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/champcar/21601

    So far car is producing 5500lbs of downforce with 5200lbs coming from the ground effect tunnels. The power might come from the current Cossie engine with it's 750hp plus push pass 800hp (costing the teams a little over $1million for the lease) or modified/new engine that couls produce 775hp with push to pass being 825hp max.
    This car could have the potential to be has fast has current F1 car. If Champ Car decide to go with carbon brakes and 775hp route.
    The reason they would go carbon brake route is to save money. Because right during a race weekend teams ae going through up to three sets of brake discs, pads, and calipers.
    Which cost a total roughly $15,000 from Brembo. And to keeping the manging the brakes and brake distance they would use different brake pad material.

    Champ Car is aiming for a total cost of running a whole season t the bottom end of say $3mllion and $6million at the top end.
     
  4. RP

    RP F1 World Champ

    Feb 9, 2005
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    Thanks for the Mark Donahue link. At least you only lost one favorite driver. I remember Bandini, Fireball Roberts, Peter Revson, Francois Cevert.
     
  5. RP

    RP F1 World Champ

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    I won't blame F1 for the Indy mess, I blame Michelin first, the Michelin teams second. They raced the Speedway for a few years with the same configuration, same turn, yet they chose to skip high speed testing. No sympathy. I won't buy Michelin, Toyota, BMW, or Mercedes.
     
  6. BartonWorkman

    BartonWorkman F1 Veteran
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    The problem as I see it, getting back to the drivers of the early days, is that there are drivers today whom are just as good and fast as any of the aforementioned Foyts, Gurneys, Andrettis, Donohues and Unsers its just that now they're being piegon holed into being specialists.

    Sebastian Bourdais came up through the ranks of karting in France. In each
    series he competed in on his way up the ladder, he won championships in the second season of each. Thus, it should have been no surprise he won the Champ Car title in his sophomore season. I've seen this kid test and race Champ Cars as well as Ferrari 550 GT Maranellos, he can flat drive anything and win as he showed when he topped the NASCAR boys at their own game winning an IROC race at Texas last year. Was that beautiful or what?
    It's great that Bourdais is running in Champ Car, but why then no F1 offer?
    He's clearly qualified but not even Renault gives him a test. Curious.

    Another in this mold is Tom Kristensen. Kristensen was among the four who vied for the Alumax/Bettenhausen ride at Sebring in October of 1996 with Patrick Carpentier, Allan McNish and Jorg Muller.

    Out of this audition test, Kristensen emerged as the fastest of the four (.4 faster than Carpentier and even topped former driver Stefan Johansson's best times from tests the previous year) but Patrick got the ride as he is Canadian and Alumax had vested interests and factories in Canada.

    Tony Bettenhausen later lamented the decision as he thought highly of Kristensen's obvious pace, engineering skill and pleasant demeanour which would have made the team a winner straight away. Instead, the sponsors went with the convenient tie-in and, not to take anything away from Patrick who is still a good friend and top driver, he's no Tom Kristensen. Kristensen is much in the mode of Mario Andretti wherein he may drive any type of car (Formula, sports cars, buggies, touring cars, etc.) and win and what we dont see these days are the drivers like Andretti, Parnelli Jones, A.J. Foyt, etc. who could race F-1 one weekend and sprint cars on dirt the next and desert raid the next, as the business of racing has become so specialized.

    Where CART went astray with their drivers were these types of tie-ins and then the explosion of paying drivers. CART was a sinking ship when we attempted to market Tom Kristensen into the series on his talent in 1999. We were told by teams which were interested that it would cost upwards of $4M to simply get him in the seat, rather than actually paying him $1-2M and having their team at the front of the field consistently which would bring in sponsors and attention but the teams dont see it this way any more.

    Thus, we see top drivers like Kristensen running in the DTM (and, oh yes, winning Le Mans outright seven times in nine attempts) where they are highly paid to work for factory teams in a very competitive environment. The point being, top drivers are going to go where the money and exposure is the highest and the American open-wheeled series had better learn from past mistakes and do whatever possible to bring in the top drivers again as the Indy 500 used to be filled with champions (of one dicipline or another) from one end of the grid to the other which made the 500 a genuine all star race.

    It will be interesting to watch the progress of Scott Speed this year. You'd think there would be a lot of hype about his entry into F1 but its barely made
    a blip on the radar screen other than a piece I saw about him a couple of weeks ago which basically portrayed him as an arrogant prick, something of which Speed himself did not deny.

    If they're going to do this reunification by next year, the teams, sponsors and sanctioning body better sit down and have a serious chat about if they're going to market drivers with suitcases full of cash again or if they're going to get down to business and do whatever it takes to get the best drivers available; those like Bourdais and Kristensen whom are winners straight out of the box or, sadly, we'll be stuck with second rate drivers again and the reunification will be doomed to fail.

    BHW
     
  7. MaxN

    MaxN Rookie

    Feb 23, 2006
    20
    SoCal
    There are a bunch of problems with Scott Speed and his entry into F1, The more major of which is that the general public here in the US could really could not care any less about F1 (even if they tried). Therefore the entry into what we consider to be the prime catagory of motorsports of an American driver, into an almost entirely unknown team is not eaxctly prime-time news.

    He is not a big name, he has not won the Indy 500, he has never raced in NASCAR, he is a non-entity as far as the VAST MAJORITY of the US motorsport fanbase is concerned.

    Then there is his arrogance, well yes, I agree, he is arrogent, but so are the vast majority of F1 pilotes, so he will fit right in there, but again, he has done absolutely nothing to warrent such a level of arrogance, especialy in the eyes of the US public.

    As for the rest of the world, he is seen as being an arrogant American prick, that probably has no concept of how to turn right (the oval reputation is a pretty bad one to the rest of the world), that is over-hyped, and entirely unproven. Many people are just waiting for him to be the next Andretti jnr.

    Personally I hope that he does manage to make an impact, it could potentially be extremely good for the future of F1 in the US.

    Somehow I doubt that he will though, unless he joins the Red Bull Seniors real soon....
     
  8. Whisky

    Whisky Two Time F1 World Champ
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    The original Fernando
    I lost more than one, but Donohue I knew personally - and he was the FIRST driver I ever met, and knew, personally. No, we didn't exchange christmas cards, but when I showed up at the track, he knew me, and I never got chased off by him or the crew.

    I would never go for a spec motor, spec chassis or spec tire, but I don't know how to keep the costs down, I mean, money rules innovation, and as much as someone may dislike Penske and blame him for driving costs up, I say to you if it wasn't him, it would have been someone else.....
    I love innovation, I HATE seeing a huge speed or time discrepencie between the top car and the last car in each event, but that has happened forever.

    The only equalizer I can think of is to raise the minimum weight about 500 lbs, and as someone suggested a few years ago, add weight to the winner's car or the following event, just like in horse racing.

    There is a reason all of us hard core racing nuts would prefer a good nostalgia event over a current event (?)
     
  9. Prova7

    Prova7 Formula Junior

    Nov 17, 2003
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    DamonB
    While I agree with the fact that CART's talent pool is not as great as the past due to drivers paying for rides I take issue with "Hardly anyone at Indy could compete in NASCAR or F1 or they would be". That's ridiculous. All the drivers who ARE in F1 or NASCAR ARE good? Bologna.

    Some people don't know their history well. CART formed and began racing in 1979. The IRL formed on paper in 1994 but didn't hold its first race until 1996. CART was racing a "mere" 25 years or so before George got pissed and took his track away, forming the IRL and attempting to starve the CART teams into submission.

    If the new series uses true racing engines and runs oval, street and roadcourses I'm all for it. A "dumbed down" spec chassis with a stock block motor will fail IMO. That's not what open wheel fans wish to see.
     
  10. RP

    RP F1 World Champ

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    There are a handful of excellent drivers that could do a cross over in each series. Tony K, Dan W., Jeff Gordan, Tony Stewart. Scott Speed at lease has the right name to be famous, but his ability in F1 is yet to be determined. I am having a difficult time deciding if any F1 driver could get used to constant drafting (side, front, and rear) on a superspeedway. You fool yourself if you don't realize how difficult that is at 190MPH for 3 hours. On a 30 degree banking. I find it scary to watch, I even got to ride around Daytona at speed with Booby Allison, and that scared me, couldn't wait to get out and change underwear.
     
  11. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Maybe a look back at 1993 might help when a F1 driver won the CART title in his rookie year?
    :)
     
  12. Boxer12

    Boxer12 Formula 3

    Jun 1, 2003
    1,672
    Ken, you know how I know you are gay? B/c you would EVER think that ANYTHING can make Danica "yesterday's news." Can you name one female driver from the past that is 1/2 as H-O-T???? If it were Shumi and Danica at the end of the day giving autographs, I might stand in Shumi's line, but my EYES would be on HER!
     
  13. Boxer12

    Boxer12 Formula 3

    Jun 1, 2003
    1,672
    Right on!
     
  14. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    I'd stand in her line. Period.
     
  15. Ken

    Ken F1 World Champ

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    Point taken. I meant to say "compete for a championship". Granted not everyone in NASCAR is at the top level; but the top 15-20 guys are all better than the 4th best IRL guy.

    Ken
     
  16. Ken

    Ken F1 World Champ

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    LOL Danica IS hot, but we're talking racing. Hooters girls in the cars is not exactly what I want, although maybe it would sell tickets!

    Ken
     
  17. jeffdavison

    jeffdavison F1 Rookie
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    Hell must have frozen over and there's a new spices of pigs with wings :)

    oh wait...... Global warming and stem cell/cloning research bans... reality bites


    won't see it in our life times :(



    JD

     
  18. BartonWorkman

    BartonWorkman F1 Veteran
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    Danica had better prove her worth this year as Katherine Legge is entering the Champ Car circuit having done something Danica never was able to accomplish, win in Formula Atlantic.

    They're marketing the first race of the IRL season here in South Florida and mention of Danica as "The Hearthrob of Racing" as the reason to attend the
    race at Homestead. It's all starting to smack of NASCAR marketing tactics.

    If Danica dosent win this year, the media horde following her around will no
    doubt jump ship and follow the new rookie sensation Legge over to Champ Car
    and hopefully her PR folks will handle things better than Danica's have.

    I believe they've milked Danicamania to near overload already and if they're counting on her to keep attention on the series, they may be in for a big letdown. Having met Danica, she in an impressive young lady, no doubt, but
    to put all that additional weight on her shoulders at this time is not only in bad taste, it's hype that no one may live up to and is doubtlessly causing resentment from top drivers like Wheldon, Franchitti and Kanaan.

    Experienced American drivers in F1? Absolutely, Jeff Gordon should have been the choice two years ago. If Bernie Ecclestone was as smart as he thinks he is and really wanted to market in America, he should have been bending over backwards to get Gordon in F1 (make him an offer he could not have refuse) but Bernie didnt see it this way.

    Having Gordon in F1 would have had a two fold effect. First, the NASCAR hordes would have been tuning in and those are television numbers that even F1 must envy. And second, the world wide media attention Gordon's entry into F1 would have brought would more than make up for the money Bernie spent to get Gordon there in the first place (ok, I'm rambling).

    Unfortunately, Gordon makes more money selling t-shirts and trinkets (into the tens of millios of dollars annually) than he does in prize winnings and salary, so what sense does it make for him or any of the top NASCAR drivers to jump into F1?

    BHW
     
  19. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    They're already there: JPM, Barrichello, Massa

    PS: RACER magazine made the same mistake on their current cover by "finally having an American driver" in F1 because of Scott Speed. HELLO!
     
  20. Whisky

    Whisky Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Where is it written that if you truly are the best driver that you have to crossover to different series ?
    There is little doubt Jeff Gordon would be great in an F1 car he proved that when he drove the Williams-BMW a few years ago, and he also comes from an open-wheel upbringing, but where would be the incentive for him to do so ? He's making a FORTUNE in the rag trade - t-shirts, window stickers, jackets, toy cars, etc. on top of personal sponsorships and track winnings (which are nothing compared to everything else). A few JG fans would follow him to IRL, even less to F1, DuPont knows where they want him, etc.
    I think people watch JG when he competes against the other name drivers like Tony Stewart, Jr., Busch, etc. because those fans are rooting both FOR JG and AGAINST other drivers, kinda like the WWE, I don't think you have that in any other motorsport in the USA save for NHRA drag racing.

    Danica Patrick - you mean you hope what happened to Sarah Fisher doesn't happen to Danica ?

    enough of my drival...
     
  21. yzee

    yzee F1 Veteran
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    Autoweek today:

    Tony George - "It was a one day story, We've talked a little about our industry, but nothing serious."

    Kevin Kalkhoven - "We're just getting to know each other." "If people are serious about the future of open-wheel racing, they will just go away and leave us alone."

    Does this mean this thread should close?

    See my post #46. Kalkhoven has bought the Long Beach GP organization. Then has on schedule Champ and Rolex/France together. Does that tell you that the merge is closer than they would like to reveal.

    "Go away and leave us alone." That's a HOOT!
     
  22. GTB4NART

    GTB4NART Formula Junior

    Jan 17, 2004
    421
    I think it was over for both of these groups about 5 years ago. The opportunity was then and now it's over. The fans are gone and to get them back is impossible because motorsport in the USA has been claimed by Nascar. Soon the Indy 500 will be an ESPN affair and the Brickyard 400 will be the primetime event at Indy. The kids don't know the Andrettis or Unsers, they know Jeff Gordon and Dale Jr. Somebody please turn out the lights at the IRL and Champ. - it's OVER. Racing popularity has always been about its stars and not the cars, even in F1.

    Now it's time for Dale Jr and Jeff Gordon to battle it out at Long Beach in Nascars.


     
  23. Whisky

    Whisky Two Time F1 World Champ
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    That's a fairly true statement, and the proof is:

    In the 60's and 70's any stock car fan knew who Foyt, Andretti, Unser, Clark were, and any Indy fan knew who Petty, Pearson, Yarbrough, Baker were.

    Today that's a one-way street.

    Even I don't know who races IRL/Champ today because I don't know who has jumped to where over the winter.
     
  24. RP

    RP F1 World Champ

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    It is official, IRL and Champ Car are in talks to merge. If this happens, we will finally have an open wheel series in the USA to follow.
     
  25. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Finally somebody had some sense. Can't wait for the series to be great again.
     

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