Installing my new Diff | Page 3 | FerrariChat

Installing my new Diff

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by qwazipsycho, May 17, 2013.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. uzz32soarer

    uzz32soarer F1 Rookie

    Sep 9, 2006
    3,088
    Melbourne, Australia
    Full Name:
    Robert Hayden
    Tim, no different if it's a Newman diff, or a FOrza diff or a Modena diff, or a ZF factory diff.

    All of these checks and adjustments have to be made to be 100% with the job, and yes, it can be and has been done in the car, twice recently in Australia using a Forza diff and a Modena diff.
     
  2. uzz32soarer

    uzz32soarer F1 Rookie

    Sep 9, 2006
    3,088
    Melbourne, Australia
    Full Name:
    Robert Hayden
    Scratch pattern on a flat sheet is the only thing I would trust. it will show you dips, wavy and most importantly, as I found on my crown wheel, cupping of the rear mounting face.

    And, a 10mm thick glass top coffee table is near perfect for this job. Float plate glass is marginally better.
     
  3. uzz32soarer

    uzz32soarer F1 Rookie

    Sep 9, 2006
    3,088
    Melbourne, Australia
    Full Name:
    Robert Hayden
    Hey Scott,

    Remember that this is a discussion forum, not a paid question answer group. Some of us don't drop be here daily or even weekly, and many of us knock off what we are doing and take the time to answer your questions when we are able. For some of us old two fingered typists, that's a fair bit of effort. If you need to rely on definitive professional advice that is on demand when you need it, that's what you need to pay for.

    We all understand that you are in the middle of the Pacific on an Island, but settle down a bit. Your post above reeks of frustration over what is a very difficult job, but don't shoot the messengers mate.

    Phil supplies a diff, the beautiful work of art that it is, it's just a diff. You have a myriad of other things that have to come together to make this fit perfectly, and as Phil isn't a certified Ferrari mechanic, nor a diff specialist, I don't see what additional help he could be apart from supplying an awesome product at a (comparative) bargain basement price compared to market alternatives.

    It's a very frustrating job what you are attempting to do, and none of us here are certified Ferrari mechanics or diff specialists. Yes, there are some clever blokes here and we are all here to help each other where we can, but this is a bonus of the bond of Testarossa fellowship, and shouldn't be taken for granted.

    Now that you are getting close, isn't there a mechanic somewhere on the Island who knows about transaxles who would do a home visit for a few bucks to give you another opinion or double check your steps?

    I need to find the thread pertaining to Kerry that you refer to before I can understand your reference above. We all will try to help, but a port of call with total reliance on answers isn't what this forum is all about.
     
  4. uzz32soarer

    uzz32soarer F1 Rookie

    Sep 9, 2006
    3,088
    Melbourne, Australia
    Full Name:
    Robert Hayden
    So between emails, back reading this thread and answering where I could, there's another 2 hours blown.

    Now, where was I.........................
     
  5. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
    8,867
    southwest germany and thailand
    Full Name:
    romano schwabel

    AAA +++ :) :) :)
     
  6. qwazipsycho

    qwazipsycho Formula 3

    Oct 30, 2004
    1,176
    Utah
    Full Name:
    Scott
    I bow down to you kind sir and can't tell you how much I appreciate your wisdom and willingness to share it with me.

    You hit the nail on the head with "difficult" and "frustrating job". But I will figure this out if it's the last thing I do!
     
  7. uzz32soarer

    uzz32soarer F1 Rookie

    Sep 9, 2006
    3,088
    Melbourne, Australia
    Full Name:
    Robert Hayden
    You will get there Scott.

    And yes, it's seriously frustrating but the nice thing is, you are having a go and not paying the F Pimp some extraordinary hourly rate to try and figure it out themselves.

    Keep at it mate.

    But check that crownwheel on a sheet of glass.
     
  8. uzz32soarer

    uzz32soarer F1 Rookie

    Sep 9, 2006
    3,088
    Melbourne, Australia
    Full Name:
    Robert Hayden
    Just wasn't meant to be for me today. Went to the garage with all the best intentions of doing some work on my old girl.

    Then messages back and forth to Scott, a neighbor drops in and can't get his Lexarse door locks to work, then the wife gets visitors and the young male children want to see the garage. Inquisitive little buggers kids!

    So then it got cold and dark and that was another day. Ah well.
     
  9. qwazipsycho

    qwazipsycho Formula 3

    Oct 30, 2004
    1,176
    Utah
    Full Name:
    Scott
    Dude! I'm so sorry. I know the feeling though. For me it's go run this child or that child to whatever event, my computer won't boot, my computer has a virus, our server just went down, fix this, fix that. I guess I gotta make money to afford these outrageous F parts.

    Before I was an island dweller I had a big plot of land with a 3000 sq. ft. shop to lock the doors and hide in. Now just a 2 car garage where everyone can see me and knows where I am. Grrrr. I feel your pain.
     
  10. qwazipsycho

    qwazipsycho Formula 3

    Oct 30, 2004
    1,176
    Utah
    Full Name:
    Scott
    Not without you and this site!;)
     
  11. testamon

    testamon Formula Junior

    Aug 16, 2008
    346
    Sydney
    Full Name:
    Mike O
    Rob, we know you love it! Well about everything but the cold and dark part. Should move further away from Antartica.
     
  12. qwazipsycho

    qwazipsycho Formula 3

    Oct 30, 2004
    1,176
    Utah
    Full Name:
    Scott
    #62 qwazipsycho, Jun 3, 2013
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2013
    Aloha,

    Here is an update.

    First lets get this out of the way. My local machine shop says my crown gear is flat. That was easier than buying a glass coffee table and making figure 8 for hours. :) After all I have done with this, I never thought it was warped but that was the only way I was gonna make you guys believe me.

    After talking to several other experts it was concluded that the pinion gear needs to move. Therefore I am going to have to tear into it some more.

    My question is, why? If the pinion was never removed from the case, why should I have to move it now? There must be something else out of alignment.

    By replacing the side cover and diff, the variations should have only been side to side. So I thought maybe the hole in the side cover was off center. I have another side cover that isn't usable but it was intact so I thought I'd throw it in and see if it made a difference. It didn't. My pattern does not change. So that's not it.

    It was then suggested that I look at wear patterns to see if maybe the gears were installed that way in the first place. Guess what? That might be true. I can see wear on the ring gear in the same locations as where I'm getting the pattern. Would Ferrari actually have done this? How could my diff have been so quiet and perfect before with this type of gear mesh? Is that even possible or have I not found the issue yet?

    Also, it appears the entire gearbox has to be torn down to remove the pinion is that true? So sad....
     
  13. Melvok

    Melvok F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jul 25, 2008
    14,101
    Amersfoort, The Netherlands, Europe.
    Full Name:
    Mel
    #63 Melvok, Jun 3, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  14. qwazipsycho

    qwazipsycho Formula 3

    Oct 30, 2004
    1,176
    Utah
    Full Name:
    Scott
    Hi Mel!

    There were several questions asked. Which are you referring to?

    "If the pinion was never removed from the case, why should I have to move it now?"

    "Would Ferrari actually have done this?"

    "How could my diff have been so quiet and perfect before with this type of gear mesh?"

    "Do I have to tear down the entire gearbox?"

    I assume it's the last question you are answering. That makes me soooo sad.
     
  15. Melvok

    Melvok F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jul 25, 2008
    14,101
    Amersfoort, The Netherlands, Europe.
    Full Name:
    Mel
    Correct ... and it may also cost an extra $$$$ ... sure...

    But if all is removed, cleaned and all bearings renewed you have a new (or refurbished) gb worth € K$25 in your car.
     
  16. qwazipsycho

    qwazipsycho Formula 3

    Oct 30, 2004
    1,176
    Utah
    Full Name:
    Scott
    OK, so now I need pointers on how to tear down the gearbox.

    I'd like to not have to separate the gearbox from the engine but if it makes it a lot easier just say so. Keep in mind that my gears were perfectly fine before the diff exploded. So I don't expect to have to do much to it. I've already examined everything I can with the side cover removed. All the gears and syncro's look good.

    I'm not some super rich Ferrari owner so I won't be replacing every little thing. Let's keep this as simple as possible. We're just trying to fix the diff here. :)

    Yes, if it needs replacing I will do it but lets not go crazy.
     
  17. Melvok

    Melvok F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jul 25, 2008
    14,101
    Amersfoort, The Netherlands, Europe.
    Full Name:
    Mel
    #67 Melvok, Jun 3, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I am a pensionner Scot ... not the big F money either... but if it is all open, I will gladly pay for all new bearings ....

    We seperated box and engine ... better to clean the casing in and out once and for all ... (= LOT of work ...)

    And were amazed seeing some completely worn gears ... which had Always worked very nice and smooth ...
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  18. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
    8,867
    southwest germany and thailand
    Full Name:
    romano schwabel
    #68 turbo-joe, Jun 3, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    hello again scott,

    as I have written in post no. 18 the pinion has to move in driving direction more to the front of the car. don´task me why it is so because before you had the problem it was all ok. I really can not answer. only that F already did not a good job.

    I put in a copy of the WSM where you can see what to do when the pattern is not ok. so in what direction you have to move the pinion and the crown.

    to remove the pinion it is one of the biggest jobs to do on the TR. you have to separate the gearbox from the engine. on the top of the gearbox case there is a very small screw ( No. 22 on table 32, when putting later all together put some silicone there on the top of the screw) you have to remove for the reverse gear. and to this screw you only can get when the gearbox is separated from the engine.

    to your 4 questions:
    1. I already answered - I don´t know :(
    2. yes
    3. as you already told and other also the pattern as it is now is not so bad, but not perfect
    4. yes

    you have do to now a really big job. because you will put in the pinion several times and out again because not matching right. for this it is important that first of all you have to adjust the bearings on the pinion shaft ( No. 19 and 23 in table 33 ). during checking and adjusting you don´t need all the gears and sychronising parts. just messure the complete length of all and put a distance part instead of all the parts in. this works pretty good. the center bearing No. 23 is pressed on the pinion shaft and not so easy to remove. when checking the adjustment of those 2 bearings you also don´t have to put the gears and sychronising parts ( gears for 2nd to 5th ) in. use just an iron pipe. also the bearing No. 9 you don´t have to put it on for adjusting.

    to do this job it would be good if you have the WSM. this you can download, but don´t ask me just now where? I´m sure someone here will give you the link. without this WSM and also without the parts catalog you may not start this job ! ! !

    you need special tools to remove the nuts No. 15 ( table 32 ) and No 16 ( table 33 ). be carefull: one nut has right thread, the other left. as I remember right the No 15 has left thread? but not sure :(

    I wish very very very good luck ! ! !
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  19. qwazipsycho

    qwazipsycho Formula 3

    Oct 30, 2004
    1,176
    Utah
    Full Name:
    Scott
    Done. They are cheap anyway.
     
  20. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
    8,867
    southwest germany and thailand
    Full Name:
    romano schwabel
    could you please put in here some pictures of your broken diff please?
    may be the diff has been broken because of the wrong alignment?
     
  21. Melvok

    Melvok F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Jul 25, 2008
    14,101
    Amersfoort, The Netherlands, Europe.
    Full Name:
    Mel
    #71 Melvok, Jun 3, 2013
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2013
    They are NOT cheap at all .... the oem ones ...

    (Scroll up for the mentionned special tools and how bad it was in my gb when we opened it the first time ... :( )
     
  22. qwazipsycho

    qwazipsycho Formula 3

    Oct 30, 2004
    1,176
    Utah
    Full Name:
    Scott
    #72 qwazipsycho, Jun 3, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Here ya go..
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  23. qwazipsycho

    qwazipsycho Formula 3

    Oct 30, 2004
    1,176
    Utah
    Full Name:
    Scott
    My motto is "Only pay the F pimp as a last resort"
     
  24. qwazipsycho

    qwazipsycho Formula 3

    Oct 30, 2004
    1,176
    Utah
    Full Name:
    Scott
    Thank you Romano. Your help is very much appreciated and your experience is invaluable.
     
  25. qwazipsycho

    qwazipsycho Formula 3

    Oct 30, 2004
    1,176
    Utah
    Full Name:
    Scott
    I am very familiar with the WSM at this point. :)

    Tell me about the tools. What's the best solution?

    And how much of my life is this going to suck up?
     

Share This Page