Inexpensive Spare Tire Solution! | FerrariChat

Inexpensive Spare Tire Solution!

Discussion in '348/355' started by Tangospell, Mar 23, 2010.

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  1. Tangospell

    Tangospell Rookie

    Nov 20, 2007
    42
    Brentwood, West L.A.
    #1 Tangospell, Mar 23, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    As you all know, 355s came with a can of fix-a-flat in lieu of a spare tire. A Ferrari space-saver spare tire kit for the 355 was an expensive (about $1500) and needless-to-say, rarely purchased option. Used spares almost never come up on eBay, etc.

    There are a few problems with using fix-a-flat should you get a flat tire. The sealant gums up the inside of your tire, and I've heard there may not be enough pressure in the can to inflate your tire with the weight of your car flattening it down. You can't jack your 355 up to take the weight off the flat tire, since 355s don't come with a jack.

    So, here is how you may have a suitable space-saver spare, without breaking the bank:

    Ferrari 355s have 18" wheels. I noticed the space-saver spare on my daily driver, a Porsche 911, was 18", so I tried it on my 355. It didn't fit. Thus I learned that there are a variety of lug-nut-hole patterns, and Porsche and Ferrari patterns are not compatible. Inspired, I asked a tire shop is any other car had an identical wheel size AND lug-nut-hole pattern to my 355. The shop had a reference book which said the Jaguar S-Type "R" was the same (perhaps others are as well, I stopped with that one option). Regular S-Types have only 16" wheels, but the supercharged "R" models have 18" wheels. Now, Jaguar S-Type "R" are not all that common, but they are more common that 355s, and every one of them has a spare tire. They were made from about 2003 to 2008. I purchased a spare tire from that model Jag on eBay, for $120. You could also try foreign car wrecker yards. Mine came with an unused Pirelli tire on the aluminum rim, which, would you believe, is Rosso corso in color.

    If life were simple, the Jag wheel would just bolt on, and you'd be done. It is not quite that easy, though (speaking of life, do you know how a Ferrari is like life? Answer: it goes too fast, and you can't afford it).

    To make the Jaguar spare fit your 355 you need to make two minor modifications. The center hole in the Jaguar wheel is not quite large enough to fit on the central raised flange of the 355 hub. So the center hole in the Jag wheel needs to be enlarged.

    Secondly, the 355 hub has two protruding bolts (one with a rubber cover on it). On Ferrari wheels, there are holes between the lug-bolt-holes to accommodate these bolt heads. The Jag wheel has no such holes. Thus you need to drill two holes in the Jag wheel, so it will sit flush on the 355 hub.

    I had a machine shop enlarge the central hole in the Jag wheel, and make two holes to accommodate the two bolts on the Ferrari hub. They charged $100 to do this. If you have suitable tools, you could probably do this yourself. If you use a machine shop, lend them one of your Ferrari wheels so they can see how big to make the center hole, and where to locate the two added holes. Note: the Ferrari wheel has holes between EVERY lug-bolt-hole, you don't need all these in the Jag wheel, only two holes (mark where they should be for the machine shop by seeing where the bolts are on your hub). Alternatively you could pull a hub off your car and lend it to the machine shop, but that is quite a bit of work.

    At his point you have a space-saver wheel and tire that will fit perfectly on your 355.

    You are only a few small items away from having peace-of-mind about ever getting a flat.

    To mount your new spare on your car, you need new lug bolts. The Ferrari lug bolts are too long and won't tighten-up on the Jag wheel. I ordered five bolts and five washers from a hardware supplier online (boltdepot.com). The bolts you should order are hex-bolts, full-thread metric, 14 mm in diameter, 30 mm long, with a thread pitch of 1.5. The washers should be 14mm as well. I paid about $25 including shipping.

    We're almost there! You need a jack. I looked online and in auto supply stores at scissors jacks (a bottle jack doesn't have enough clearance to fit under your 355). Only found heavy, bulky mostly Chinese jacks. So instead, I bought a used one on CraigsList. The seller said it was from a Mercedes, though it says "Toyota" on the top. It can easily handle the weight of one corner of my 355, and is low enough even when the tire is flat to fit under the car. I paid $10.

    You need a tire-iron as well. I bought a 7/8" one at Pep Boys (local auto supply store) for $10. I like that it's a straight bar, and not a cross.

    I wanted a cover for the spare tire when it is in my 355's trunk. I rather like the black cover on my Porsche's spare, and bought a similar cover from a wrecker yard. It was $25. When it arrived it was filthy (been sitting outside?) but I threw it in the clothes washer and it came out looking like new.

    Voila! For about $300 you have a complete spare tire kit for your 355. Think of the peace-of-mind! It fits nicely on the floor of your trunk (I stuffed a towel on one side, so it doesn't slide around as there's an extra inch or two of room between the spare and the sides of your trunk).

    Note for 348 owners: I am told your hub, etc., are the same as for a 355 so all the above should work for you as well, but I'm not familiar with 348s, so you had best confirm this yourself, or maybe someone will on this thread.

    A note of thanks: I got a HUGE amount of help from Giuseppe at F&M Motorsports at 11797 W. Pico in Los Angeles (310) 445-8956. He helped with machine shop details, determining lug-bolt sizes and much more. I've used F&M for all the work on my 355, including a major belt-change service. They do truly excellent work, are fairly priced, and are wonderful people.

    Below are photos showing the Jag wheel, the two extra holes added to accommodate the Ferrari hub, the jack, tire-iron, new lug-bolts and washers, and cover.
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  2. Kaivball

    Kaivball Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jan 11, 2007
    35,997
    Kalifornia
    How much extra weight does it add?

    Kai
     
  3. jm3

    jm3 F1 Rookie

    Oct 3, 2002
    4,364
    United States
    Full Name:
    JM3
    My F355 jack is an aluminum Mazda RX7 TurboII, with a 22mm hex welded on the end instead of the 19mm.

    The lug wrench and jack wrench are the same, a common 1/2 inch breaker bar with a deep 22mm socket.

    (The Turbo jack is a special German made jack for the RX7 turbo only)


    Jay
     
  4. ferrari 512 tr

    ferrari 512 tr F1 Rookie

    Nov 16, 2008
    4,179
    Australia
    Full Name:
    Paolo
    very good idea
    thanks very much for the info
     
  5. S-T48

    S-T48 Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 30, 2008
    575
    Stevenson Ranch, CA
    It looks better than the original 355 wheel
     
  6. NeuroBeaker

    NeuroBeaker Advising Moderator
    Moderator

    Oct 1, 2008
    39,702
    Huntsville, AL., USA
    Full Name:
    Andrew
    Good thinking - I love seeing these sorts of solutions. :cool:

    All the best,
    Andrew.
     
  7. eulk328

    eulk328 F1 Rookie

    Feb 18, 2005
    2,800
    Full Name:
    F683
    #7 eulk328, Mar 23, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2010
    Great find and research you did. But...... I would NEVER drive the car using those bolts you got for the wheels. I really believe it could lead to disaster. Scary.... that is no area you want to be messing around with an improvised solution (I mean the bolts with washers part of it).

    I would get some used Ferrari wheel bolts and have them cut down to the right length by a machine shop. Hopefully the seat angle of the bolt heads would match those of the bolt holes on the Jag. wheel. Alternatively, if the Jag. wheel bolts are the same size and thread pitch as the Ferrari then use them.


     
  8. yronZFF

    yronZFF Formula Junior
    Owner

    Dec 21, 2009
    749
    FIVE-O
    Full Name:
    Ron
    I agree that the bolts/washers from boltdepot.com could be scary. Although you would be driving at slower speeds with your spare tire, Ferrari wheel bolts and wheel bolts from Hill Engineering are made from high quality grade Alloy steel, hardened & tempered to ensure correct tensile strength. Also as eulk328 stated, the seat angle of the bolts should also match those of the wheel. The wheel needs to self-center on the hub. Or in the case of some wheel designs for certain cars, the shank of the bolt (or lug nut) should fit perfectly within the holes of the wheel with no play. From the photos, it looks like the holes on the wheel are much larger than the diameter of the bolts you're using.
    I'm sure you gave this whole project much thought and not to rain on the party, but, please be careful.
    BTW, I bought a used factory OEM 355 front wheel and mounted a new tire as a spare. Kind of pricy, but I know it works and is safe.
     
  9. X11OUD

    X11OUD Formula Junior

    Mar 22, 2008
    729
    Manchester, England
    Full Name:
    Neil
    Many thanks Tangospell,
    I'm off to the local Jag dealer where my friend works to see if he can locate one for me, but I will definitely be reducing the length of standard wheel bolts unless their is a true alternative.
     
  10. ulf rickard

    ulf rickard Formula Junior

    Sep 28, 2009
    424
    Sweden
    Full Name:
    Ulf Rickard
    why dont just use a jack and a fix-a-flat bottle, in my world it would be quite enough
     
  11. Paul V

    Paul V Formula Junior

    Jan 25, 2005
    324
    Shropshire (UK)
    Full Name:
    Paul
    Nice work there, I do have a question though.
    Say you are on your way for a weekend get away with the wife, you have the all your luggage packed into the luggage area. You get a flat, no problems i have a space saver. Remove the wheel fit space saver Job done.

    Where do you fit the wheel with the flat tire ??????

    Just a thought
     
  12. Tangospell

    Tangospell Rookie

    Nov 20, 2007
    42
    Brentwood, West L.A.
    Total weight of everything - Jaguar spare tire, jack, tire iron, lug bolts and cover is 42 lbs. I compensate for added weight by limiting 355 passenger seat occupancy to anorexic girlfriend...
     
  13. sambomydog

    sambomydog Guest

    May 23, 2009
    1,380
    Oh dam!! :(
    I was reading this thread and i was just about to post the very same question, and then i noticed you beat me to it:D Now the whole ideas redundant :D
     
  14. Tangospell

    Tangospell Rookie

    Nov 20, 2007
    42
    Brentwood, West L.A.
    I measured the thickness of the Jaguar spare lying flat in my 355 trunk, and it's about 6". Thus you will have that much less trunk height in your 355. I also measured the width of both the front and rear wheels on my 355, and they are about 9" and 11" respectively (either Ferrari wheel will lie flat in the 355 trunk). So worse case, where you get a rear flat, you would lose an additional 5" of trunk space over and above what is already taken by the space-saver spare. Depending on your suitcases, you might need to transfer one to your passenger footwell. Or else explain to your wife that statistically speaking, hitch-hiking is relatively safe for her at this point.
    If you store a large plastic garbage bag in with the jack and tire iron, you will have something to put your (probably dirty) flat tire in, so as to keep your trunk clean.
     
  15. sambomydog

    sambomydog Guest

    May 23, 2009
    1,380
    So have you physically fitted a standard front or rear wheel into the front boot? Have you any pictures of this? Its not the depth that i am not convinced about. Its the diameter of the standard wheel, and the real world fitting into the bootl.
    The idea you have come up with is a top draw sterling idea, but we need to know if the front or rear wheel can fit into the front. I will be one of the first to adopt your great idea if i am convinced of this question:)
     
  16. cf355

    cf355 F1 Rookie

    Feb 28, 2005
    4,208
    Full Name:
    chris
    If you use the search engine on this site you will find similar posts addressing your concerns.
    I also have the factory spare tire and I have test fit both the stock front and rear (inflated) 355 tires in the front trunk and they fit.....so handling a flat tire is not a problem.
     
  17. Tangospell

    Tangospell Rookie

    Nov 20, 2007
    42
    Brentwood, West L.A.
    A very good point. I discovered that the Ferrari lug bolts were too long after I went to mount the modified Jaguar spare wheel, so I did not ask for the Jaguar lug bolts at the time I bought my Jaguar spare. I don't know if Jaguar lug bolts have the same thread as Ferrari lug bolts. If they do, that would address this issue.

    When I ordered bolts online to use as lug bolts, I would obviously have preferred bolts of hardened steel. I could find none in the relatively large 14mm size, so the bolts I purchased are not hardened.

    A possible issue with using cut-down Ferrari bolts (besides the cost) is that where the lug bolts seat against the Jaguar wheel is a flat surface, not concave to receive the sloped shape of the Ferrari lug bolts. The bolts I bought have a flat shape to match the Jaguar wheel.

    After installing my spare with the bolts I purchased I took a test drive, and there were no problems. I did not exceed 50 MPH (the space-saver spare has a decal warning against doing this). 14mm bolts are pretty large, there are five of them, and the idea of the space-saver spare is to simply to "limp home. " Again, I agree with you, and if I found a source of hardened bolts I would buy them.
     
  18. sambomydog

    sambomydog Guest

    May 23, 2009
    1,380
    Yep used the search button on this site, saw alot of posts including yours. Still no picture of a standard wheel in the boot. Any pictures yourself?
     
  19. cf355

    cf355 F1 Rookie

    Feb 28, 2005
    4,208
    Full Name:
    chris
    #19 cf355, Mar 24, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2010
    Please goto your local tire dealer and order in the correct lug bolts.
    Hardware bolts are NOT heat treated to take the stress of wheel mounting/road use.

    I have the factory spare now but before I obtained this overly expensive spare I went to the local tire dealer, obtained a new alloy aftermarket volvo rim (that fits our bolt pattern and clears the brake calipers) with a performance tire.
    There was NO drilling required to modify the rim.
    The tire dealer ordered in the shorter lug bolts for the 'spare tire'.
    Another option is to order them on ebay and if required, have them shortened at a local machine shop.

    "correction: I forgot you are dealing with a jaguar spare......the volvo and ferrari lug bolts share the same pitch......ordering the ferrari lugs on ebay won't work for your application unless the threads/pitch are the same. Alternatively you may wish to consult a machine shop and have them fab up a set"
     
  20. cf355

    cf355 F1 Rookie

    Feb 28, 2005
    4,208
    Full Name:
    chris
    I did not take any pictures of the tires in the trunk at the time.
    I think I have only posted pictures of the spare tire in the trunk.
    The front tire fits in with room to spare, however the rear tire has to be slid in at the firewall first (the firewall is angled) and then the tire is dropped forward till it rests flat.
    When you look at your trunk you will see what I mean.
     
  21. James-NZ

    James-NZ F1 Veteran

    Jun 26, 2007
    5,822
    Hamilton, NewZealand
    Full Name:
    James
    Why don't you just remove a rear wheel from your car and try it in the boot. That will end any concerns you have.





    No way I would drive on that spare with those bolts in place. Provided the taper is correct for the Jag spare, a set of modified factory bolts will sort that issue though.


    Nice write up, thanks for taking the time to share this.
     
  22. sambomydog

    sambomydog Guest

    May 23, 2009
    1,380
    Oh so did i do something wrong by asking if there was a picture on this forum showing the wheel in the boot?? So any time any one requests if there is a picture, you will come along with a sarcastic reply.
    People request pictures on here every day, some times i even oblige or give a link to were to find one. If there isn't one there isn't one, simple.
     
  23. sambomydog

    sambomydog Guest

    May 23, 2009
    1,380
    Thats great, thanks for taking the time to explain that:)
     
  24. SpecialK43

    SpecialK43 Karting

    Oct 12, 2007
    198
    Kzoo, MI
    Full Name:
    K Russell
    #24 SpecialK43, Mar 25, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    IIRC the jag wheels use shanked lug nuts (think Cragar). Below is what they look like. I love the effort put into this but would be very concerned with mounting that spare with ordinary bolts and washers.
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  25. X11OUD

    X11OUD Formula Junior

    Mar 22, 2008
    729
    Manchester, England
    Full Name:
    Neil
    He does do this, he's a very nice man!
     

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