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Indycar "racing"

Discussion in 'Other Racing' started by 11506apollo, Aug 19, 2017.

  1. lorenzobandini

    lorenzobandini F1 Rookie
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    BW - 'Just thinkin' outside the box...I see all sports attendance/viewing dropping. Might it be that as new entries to the population participate less and less in anything physical and competitive, interest in general is fizzling? I've always understood why auto racing takes a back seat to a vast majority of sports as peole in general have not participated at any level. Automotive interest is diminishing (I posted before...I don't see kids hanging out working on cars like I used to do and see)

    'Just a thought. (Actually I really do accept these as truths) :)
     
  2. Turbopanzer

    Turbopanzer F1 Veteran

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  3. lorenzobandini

    lorenzobandini F1 Rookie
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    Come gather 'round people
    Wherever you roam
    And admit that the waters
    Around you have grown
    And accept it that soon
    You'll be drenched to the bone
    If your time to you
    Is worth savin'
    Then you better start swimmin'
    Or you'll sink like a stone
    For the times they are a-changin'.

    Come writers and critics
    Who prophesize with your pen
    And keep your eyes wide
    The chance won't come again
    And don't speak too soon
    For the wheel's still in spin
    And there's no tellin' who
    That it's namin'
    For the loser now
    Will be later to win
    For the times they are a-changin'.

    Come senators, congressmen
    Please heed the call
    Don't stand in the doorway
    Don't block up the hall
    For he that gets hurt
    Will be he who has stalled
    There's a battle outside
    And it is ragin'
    It'll soon shake your windows
    And rattle your walls
    For the times they are a-changin'.

    Come mothers and fathers
    Throughout the land
    And don't criticize
    What you can't understand
    Your sons and your daughters
    Are beyond your command
    Your old road is
    Rapidly agin'
    Please get out of the new one
    If you can't lend your hand
    For the times they are a-changin'.

    The line it is drawn
    The curse it is cast
    The slow one now
    Will later be fast
    As the present now
    Will later be past
    The order is
    Rapidly fadin'
    And the first one now
    Will later be last
    For the times they are a-changin'.

    Bob Dylan
     
  4. lorenzobandini

    lorenzobandini F1 Rookie
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    btw, while I'm at it...anyone for some Soylent Green? Hmmmmmmmm???? :(
     
  5. BartonWorkman

    BartonWorkman F1 Veteran
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    This year's Indy Car season was good and entertaining.

    The races were competitive, new drivers such as Newgarden have stepped forward. The series didn't
    shoot itself in the foot a-la 2016 with things like the Boston debacle and other embarrassing gaffes. No
    drivers lost although Bourdais' indecent at Indy was scary, we're still lucky he is with us.

    We might suppose 2017 couldn't come fast enough for Indy Car. The new generation body styles will
    go a long way to creating closer racing and more interest. The new cars will be testing at Sebring this
    week so they get their baseline set ups for street circuits and the reports should be interesting.

    Viewership aside, Indy Car is steering in the right direction. Certainly, there will be more to come for
    2019 and beyond. Instead of kicking the can down the road to 2020 and 2025 as they had been the
    past few years, they're instituting changes now that will have a far reaching effect.

    Don't think it may be understated how the split affected American open-wheeled racing. Certainly, it set
    things back two decades. Living in a culture of diminished expectations such as we are now, sports such
    as racing along with stick and ball sports will continue to see ever decreasing numbers. And, as I have
    pointed out, the host networks have themselves to blame just as much as the changing times, there
    is a decent foundation for Indy Car to continue to move forward.

    BHW
     
  6. Adrian Thompson

    Adrian Thompson Karting

    Apr 28, 2004
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    It's easy to knock Indy car, but it's moving in the right direction. TV Viewership is up approx 16% year over year at the same time as the 10,000 gorilla of Motorsport in America NASCAR is trending down. The racing is better than any other series. Multiple different winners. A chance for someone other than the top 2-3 teams to win each weekend. Great variety of tracks, Superspeedways, short ovals, road courses and street circuits. It's far from fixed, but I'd say there are more positive moves in Indycar than any other top line series. NASCAR is relying on more and more gimmicks to save it's failing audience. F1 is pricing itself out of even it's own market. WEC has imploded, most people have forgotten the WRC even exists. Indy car and IMSA are the only two bright spots out there right now. Let's hope that FIAT/Chrysler do throw an Alfa Romeo badge on an engine designed by Cosworth/Ilmor etc. and join in the fun too. They you can root for red cars on this continent every other weekend.
     
  7. TeamF1Jr

    TeamF1Jr Formula 3
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    Couple Indycar newsbites (not all good)

    -ratings for Sonoma 528k viewers (last year 536K)

    -Mark Miles believes Verizon will not continue as title sponsor post 2018 (will remain onboard perhaps in smaller capacity)
    http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Daily/Issues/2017/09/18/Marketing-and-Sponsorship/Verizon-IndyCar.aspx

    -Michigan Park Officials hold open meeting on whether Detroit Grand Prix should continue at Belle Isle Park, environmentalists not happy, want "environmental impact study"
    http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/detroit-city/2017/09/20/grand-prix-future-belle-isle-debate/105825476/
     
  8. tifoso2728

    tifoso2728 F1 Veteran
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    I watch IndyCar when it's convenient. However, it's not something that I schedule my Sunday (or Saturday night) around.

    The best thing that happened to IndyCar this year was Alonso at the Indianapolis 500 Mile Race. But after that . . . no big deal.

    I did go to the Road America event and those cars are very, very fast on that beautiful fast circuit. Still, It's not like it was in the '90's when the Road America CART race was the biggest sporting event in Wisconsin. That's saying a lot considering the almost religious devotion to the Packers and the Badgers.
     
  9. TeamF1Jr

    TeamF1Jr Formula 3
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    Like many I remember the CART days fondly, this video will make you smile. The sounds, the looks of the cars, the manufacturers, sponsors galor, the drivers, it was magical time. I'd like to think we took it for granted, but quite frankly I don't think we did, everyone knew it was special and showed up in droves back then.

     
  10. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

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    NBA, NHL, PGA, and NFL ratings have been down recently so it's across all sports. MLB has been okay, but I don't know anyone that watches that during the week as games are during work hours...lol. NASCAR and IndyCar downtrended from their peaks...it's across the board.

    I don't know exactly why, but there seems to be a lot more things to watch on demand than ever. Not just streaming movies, but lots of cable-only TV shows people I know love to watch. It's easy to focus on that rather than a season long sports event. Maybe these people have ADD. ;)

    Edit: Cutting tobacco sponsors hasn't helped support racing imo...that was a lot of funding that went away.
     
  11. tifoso2728

    tifoso2728 F1 Veteran
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    For sure, it was magical back then. The loss of the tobacco money was a big hit throughout racing.
     
  12. lorenzobandini

    lorenzobandini F1 Rookie
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    Blaaahhh, blaahhh, blaahh. As usual. :p:)
     
  13. lorenzobandini

    lorenzobandini F1 Rookie
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    Oh.

    I thought, in essence, that's what I said.... :rolleyes::

    "I see all sports attendance/viewing dropping. Might it be that as new entries to the population participate less and less in anything physical and competitive, interest in general is fizzling? I've always understood why auto racing takes a back seat to a vast majority of sports as peole in general have not participated at any level. Automotive interest is diminishing (I posted before...I don't see kids hanging out working on cars like I used to do and see)"
     
  14. Turbopanzer

    Turbopanzer F1 Veteran

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    Social media has become the replacement for sports. The obsession with it with younger generations is absolutely amazing. I see it at work and they just can't put it down. Hand held technology is their pacifier. The days of kids getting interested with cars are pretty much done thanks to federal regulations. With it cars simply become a mode of transportation. Nothing more. How can you get interested in a sport that costs more than you will ever make? Besides, drone racing is affordable, has diversity of product and anyone can participate. All the more reasons for them to find something else to do with their free time.
     
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  15. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

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    #90 BMW.SauberF1Team, Sep 21, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2017
    I was agreeing with your comment on overall all sports are showing a loss of viewers and gave specific examples especially how much talk there is about the NFL viewer ratings the first weeks of the season.

    I don't agree with your comment on why interest is diminishing in racing viewers/attendance. Working on cars is difficult on modern cars given the greater complexity of cars nowadays. Also, cars of today are more reliable and need less maintenance. Those two factors are probably why you don't see many people working on their own cars.

    I think interest in cars is still high in kids and young adults. Video games with cars are still extremely popular as are movies with cars (Fast and Furious franchise is one of the biggest). Cars today are way too expensive and even older stuff that you would hope would be cheaper by now to buy up are going up in value. Even attending events in person is incredibly expensive. If you don't live by, you need to book an expensive hotel/flight, tickets are expensive as are concessions. All for what? A poor view of racing from one corner? You can buy a nice 4k HDTV for less and watch from the comfort of your home.

    I was at the Barber racetrack this weekend for the MotoAmerica motorcycle races and there were lots of fans of all ages (mainly young). It sucked from a fan's perspective as they didn't have big screens they put up for IndyCar there so you could see the televised part at the same time...you only get a small view of the track. At least they're fan-friendly and you can walk the paddock and get autographs.

    I do agree about smartphones and social media taking over a lot of young people's time. I think a lot (not all) are unfortunately getting used to instant gratification with the activities they prefer, which is not a good thing.

    I love attending races and events to hear the cars in person, but sometimes watching it in 4K (upscaled) on TV from home and having cookout with friends is hard to turn down...

    Edit: And I'm sure ratings in sports are down since the big names of their sports have left or at the tail end of their careers. Jordan, Schumacher, Tiger, Federer, etc.
     
  16. lorenzobandini

    lorenzobandini F1 Rookie
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    I understand WHY kids don't work on cars like we used to. And I've more reasons than yours. I'm not talking about "maintenance" (although I still change my own oil, plugs, wires, brakes and anything else I can at my "advanced" age)...I'm talking about modifying (exhaust, heads, cams, pistons, cranks, etc.) for performance.
    Now, youngsters pay someone to do it and then are "proud" (false as that pride is....) of something THEY DIDN'T DO. They don't have the automotive interest enuff to learn or get their hands dirty. 'Doesn't change the fact that it's so. If interest in cars is so high due to "games" and "movies", why aren't they still doing it and attending/watching ?
    Why is racing fandom dwindling? Because people are not participating in racing at any level before even being exposed to pro racing on the track. We used to race each other to the corner, to the store, to school or home. Wherever and when ever. On foot, bicycle or whatever. We used to build and race slot cars either at home or in hobby stores/slot car centers. Go karts etc., etc. etc. (The reasons are insignificant re: being interested. You either are or not.) It's not done any more.
    I don't find attending races any more expensive now then back in the day; 'just inflation adjusted as is everything. Concession prices? A beer, for example, was the price of a 6-pack back then ($2) and it's the same ratio now. Same with the tix. (comparison: a loaded Chevy was 3 grand; now thirty and above)
    Book a hotel /flight? We (yeah, we) wouldn't have given that a thought. A bunch of us (yeah "us"...back when there were others interested) would pack a tent and cooler, beer, sandwiches, and more beer; jump in the car and go.

    Poor view from one corner? Huh? Get up off your arse and walk! :p
    Lots of fans? I'm talkin' tens of thousands, not single digit thousands.
    Big screens? What are they? ;)
    Not too long ago, when fans still showed up at the races, we didn't even have them. We, again...OH MY GOD!!!...walked (shudder!) around the circuit to get different views.
    There was very little on TV period (thank you at least a little, "Wide World of Sports"....)

    I digress. :)
     
  17. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

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    Attending races is more expensive now for young people than before because wages haven't gone up as much as inflation for the jobs they have, but their other costs have. That leaves less for discretionary spending including attending races, buying any type of car let alone a sports car (and insure it), as well as modifying it.

    There also is less reason to modify newer cars than before for performance reasons, which is why I focused on maintenance reasons in my earlier post. Cars today are much faster than in years past and there isn't much point to change out a crank or cam now as people did before. A lot of performance gains come from ECU tuning, which can add power and not require new internals. Changing a cam or crank today is also more of a pain in the butt than in an old Ford or Chevy big block...not just in accessing it and making sure everything is connected right again (or the fact they have more cams than before), but also in setting off a sensor and the ECU giving errors. Heck, if you don't tighten down your gas cap enough, you can throw an evap leak CEL and then have to deal with clearing the code which is a hassle.

    As long as the younger generations don't see a true increase in wages or increase in number of high paying quality jobs, expect a lot of pricier activities to get cut from their plans.

    Also, MotoAmerica races are anywhere from 20 to 30 minutes. The Barber track is nearly 2.5 miles with about 1/5 of the perimeter fence blocked off to fans. You can't walk around the entire track in less time than the race and a good portion of the track is obscured in that 20% of the walk. I've done the walk before during a race and missed too much so I decided next time to get a single spot where most of the track can be seen in one view. In a 24 hour endurance race your point would make more sense.
     
  18. lorenzobandini

    lorenzobandini F1 Rookie
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    Okay. If that works for you, fine.
    I prefer not to make excuses for something I don't care for. I just don't do it. ;)
     
  19. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

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    I'm just giving you reasons why younger generations aren't seen as involved. I am on the tail end of the "millennial generation" and still experienced the price hikes of tuition in undergrad and graduate school as well as a garbage job market afterwards. That put the brakes on a lot things in my life in my 20s that I'm just now being able to get to in my 30s.

    I expect it to be worse for the people born after me and in future generations. Quantitative easing didn't help as all it did was create massive asset price inflation (stocks and real estate and even some collectibles) further widening the gap of poorer and younger generations from those that already had the means to have those. Those are just some of the negative consequences that have arisen and there are other issues that will come up longterm and make more problems (i.e. extremely low interest rates that devalue pensions for example and there are trillions in underfunded pensions right now).

    Anyway, don't expect the young to get into cars like you did earlier in your life no matter how bad they want to. Wages and good job opportunities continue to be crap while the price of real estate, cars, and tuition outpace what they can make. Hobbies tend to get cut out of the budget...
     
  20. lorenzobandini

    lorenzobandini F1 Rookie
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    All the above is wonderfully stated and I understand. 'Did before that post.
    But...... I and many others I associated (hell...hung out) with had nadda. 'Was interested in racing, and working on cars, long before I had ANY money let alone what you're talking about. Yeah, you wouldn't have wanted to come into the neighborhoods I lived in early on in my life but that's irrelevant. My first car, a '67 Rambler American, cost me 200 bucks. One can achieve what ever one desires to. Then there's excuses.

    Your ratinale (spelled $$$) for not being interested in something escapes me. ;) :)
     
  21. Korr

    Korr F1 World Champ
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    Well, money is an issue as people have said. Another is that most series are content with anesthetizing their audiences with bland racing. Indy, WEC, F1 are all less exciting to watch than erosion. They all have a boring, expensive product, and yet wonder why viewership numbers are evaporating every year.

    Young people these days are getting their entertainment from Youtube and Twitch. Twitch is a website that allows people to watch other people play video games and pay for it.

    You know your business model sucks when you are losing out to people who pay to watch some fat guy playing World of Warcraft for 14 hours a day.
     
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  22. lorenzobandini

    lorenzobandini F1 Rookie
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    'Nothing to do with the ignorance and shallowness of the supposed potential fan with the knowledge and attention spans of apples, eh? You know, the kind "who pay to watch some fat guy playing World of Warcraft for 14 hours a day."

    'Agreed, the "bland racing" is less exciting to watch than erosion for those that haven't a clue.

    Not for those that do. :)
     
  23. Turbopanzer

    Turbopanzer F1 Veteran

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    This is why they created single malt scotch. It goes down smoother than indycar and the aftertaste isn't quite as bad !:D
     
  24. TeamF1Jr

    TeamF1Jr Formula 3
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  25. lorenzobandini

    lorenzobandini F1 Rookie
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    Cool. If Mario, AJ, Juan, et al can do it, why not Josef... :)
     

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