(in)famous fake F40 LM for sale | Page 2 | FerrariChat

(in)famous fake F40 LM for sale

Discussion in '288GTO/F40/F50/Enzo/LaFerrari' started by amenasce, Oct 4, 2013.

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  1. Traveller

    Traveller F1 Veteran

    Apr 10, 2009
    6,323
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    Tim
    While I agree that it is still fundamentally an F40, it is straining the relationship. Forget the interior, the mechanicals, even the bodywork is far from an accurate rendition of a true LM, indeed I don't even think it is running the correct 11.5" fronts with associated wider clam. That aside the rear clip and side panels are also not correct.

    I bet it drives well however.
     
  2. sherpa23

    sherpa23 F1 Veteran
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    May 28, 2003
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    Bastuna
    Correct.
     
  3. PAUL500

    PAUL500 F1 Rookie

    Jun 23, 2013
    3,136
    I agree its hardly up there with the cars you two guys own, and more down there with the gas Monkey one, but it still can quite rightly lay claim to being an F40
     
  4. sherpa23

    sherpa23 F1 Veteran
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    Bastuna
    I wouldn't say it's not an F40. But it isn't an LM and it has a lot of non Ferrari, non Michelotto, non LM spec parts. Look, he didn't take a pristine F40 and do this. He built a cost effective LM inspired car out of an F40 chassis and motor and while it's not what I would have done,I don't have a problem with it given what was involved. But that is what it is. No more and no less. Some people will love it and some people will not but the whole Ferrari world is like that. But don't call it an LM.
     
  5. PAUL500

    PAUL500 F1 Rookie

    Jun 23, 2013
    3,136
    I guess the only real LMs that can claim the title are the ones that only ever came out of Michelotto, everything else is a replica, but I would love to own one upgraded to their spec either in part or in full.

    There seem to be lots of non Michelotto made body panels on genuine F40s out there
     
  6. Traveller

    Traveller F1 Veteran

    Apr 10, 2009
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    Tim
    Not correct, the Michelotto ones are THE originals but there are 27 other cars which are recognised as LM's. Clearly the Michelotto ones are the the ultimate and most sought after.

    Full chassis list available if you want?
     
  7. PAUL500

    PAUL500 F1 Rookie

    Jun 23, 2013
    3,136
    Recognised by Ferrari and Michelotto Tim? yes please would be great to see the list. Were the extra ones raced or just upgraded road cars? and did M just supply the components or did they do the conversions as well?
     
  8. Traveller

    Traveller F1 Veteran

    Apr 10, 2009
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    Tim
    Not recognised by Ferrari but as best as I can understand from my conversations with CM, recognised by him-for example he knew of my car and was wondering what had happened to it. All the extra 27 were raced and that seems to be the crucial point and some had M parts, some not. Give me 24 hours and I will post a list.
     
  9. PAUL500

    PAUL500 F1 Rookie

    Jun 23, 2013
    3,136
    Superb, I imagine now the cars are coming up to 25 years old they will start emerging again and racing once more in the historic series

    So examples like Sherpas car, would CM recognise that?

    I imagine examples like the one in this thread and the gas monkey car would make perfect F40s for conversion into LM race cars using M components if they do start racing again
     
  10. sherpa23

    sherpa23 F1 Veteran
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    Nah, my car is just an F40 with some upgraded parts. It's far from an LM. I do have a fair amount of CM's parts on it but it it still a street car. It is way better than a stock F40 though. Wait until it's done with its current transformation. It is even nicer.
     
  11. bigodino

    bigodino F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 29, 2004
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    Peter den Biggelaar
    Yes, there's a beginning of a revival of the BPR series:

    Plateaux Ephémères
     
  12. Traveller

    Traveller F1 Veteran

    Apr 10, 2009
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    Tim
    Here is an extract from Michael Sheehans definitive paper on the LM. Hope this helps.


    And now we go to the F40 LM conversions done by privateers and raced in the US and Europe. Many of these cars competed successfully in various National racing events such as the U.K.’s Maranello Challenge, the Ferrari vs Porsche Challenge or as FIA GT2 cars. All started as normal streetcars.

    F40 Conversion s/n 78036. Modified and raced in the Maranello Challenge. Overall winner, 1998, driven by Stuart Bowler. Later updated to FIA GT-2 specs. In England.

    F40 Conversion s/n 80369. Heavily modified for and raced in the FIA Privilege GT Championship, driven by Ian Flux and Ian Hetherington. Built to full F40 LM specifications. In England.

    F40 Conversion s/n 80726. Destroyed and then recreated to F40 LM specs. Raced in the French GT series, 1997. In France.

    F40 Conversion s/n 80732. Fitted with an F40 LM body for Artsport 123. Never raced. In Japan.

    F40 Conversion s/n 80735. Mildly modified and raced in Italy in 1993-1994 and in the Japan GT Championship for Mimmo Schiattarella.

    F40 Conversion s/n 80749. A mildly modified club racer. In Germany.

    F40 Conversion s/n 80760. A mildly modified club racer. In Holland.

    F40 Conversion s/n 80762. A mildly modified club racer. In Holland.

    F40 Conversion s/n 80771. Highly modified. Championship winning car in the Ferrari-Porsche Challenge 1993-94. In Holland

    F40 Conversion s/n 80778. Highly modified and raced in Ferrari-Porsche Challenge. In Holland

    F40 Conversion s/n 80780. Modified and raced in the All Japan GT series by Team Taisan. Now in Japan.

    F40 Conversion s/n 80782. Highly modified and raced in Ferrari-Porsche Challenge. In Holland.

    F40 Conversion s/n 83405. Highly modified. Raced in the BPR series and Le Mans. In Italy.

    F40 Conversion s/n 83498. Modified and raced in the Italian GT Championship. In Italy.

    F40 Conversion s/n 83500. Modified and raced in the Italian GT Championship. In Italy.

    F40 Conversion s/n 83586. Modified and raced in the Maranello Challenge. In England.

    F40 Conversion s/n 83667. Mildly modified club racer. In Belgium.

    F40 Conversion s/n 83915. Modified and raced in the Maranello Challenge. Overall winner, 1996. In England.

    F40 Conversion s/n 83916. Modified and raced in the Maranello Challenge. Overall winner, 1999. Later further modified and raced in the Ferrari vs Porsche Challenge. In England.

    F40 Conversion s/n 84326. Converted into an F40 LM GTE by Hamann Motorsport with 640 hp. Raced twice in the BPR series, June 30, 1996 at the Nurburgring, but DNFed, and later raced September 22, 1996 at Francorchamps, finishing 26th O.A. Now in Germany

    F40 Conversion s/n 85690. Modified and raced in the Italian GT Championship. In Italy.

    F40 Conversion s/n 85982. Highly modified as a club racer in the USA. Still in the USA.

    F40 Conversion s/n 86440. Converted into an F40 LM look-a-like in Germany. Still in Germany.

    F40 Conversion s/n 88538. Being modified into a race car. In Holland.

    F40 Conversion s/n 89415. Modified and raced in the Italian GT Championship, 1992. In Italy.

    F40 Conversion s/n 89465. Mildly modified club racer. In Germany.

    F40 Conversion s/n 91078. Modified and raced in the Italian GT Championship. In Italy

    F40 Conversion s/n 91668. Highly modified club racer. In Germany.

    F40 Conversion s/n 91979. Very modified racer, only club raced. In Germany.

    F40 Conversion s/n 93813. Modified and raced in the Italian GT Championship. In Italy.
     
    TAKSY, Acacg and NürScud like this.
  13. PAUL500

    PAUL500 F1 Rookie

    Jun 23, 2013
    3,136
    Wow, if the BPR series does re emerge it would be fantastic to see them all race in anger again
     
  14. Traveller

    Traveller F1 Veteran

    Apr 10, 2009
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    Tim
    Include 84326 out!
     
  15. amenasce

    amenasce Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Joe Mansion
    I said it is a fake F40 LM which it is.
     
  16. NürScud

    NürScud F1 Veteran

    Nov 3, 2012
    7,273
    Nice and interesting list Tim!! Thanks for sharing.

    :)
     
  17. JeremyJon

    JeremyJon F1 Veteran

    Jul 28, 2010
    7,569
    Calgary, Canada
    #42 JeremyJon, Oct 8, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2013
    obviously the current owner isn't the builder, and nor is the next person who buys it
    no matter if the haters can't stop hating :rolleyes: not sure the point of making thread after thread of saying the same thing "we are the Roland's LM haters"? fortunately the car itself doesn't harbor similar resentments & will continue on ;)
    it's registered as the F40 vin it was (re)built up from, and even in it's far from stock F40 spec, it's real Ferrari parts & design underneath, and that's all that matters, but if the new buyer decides to 'tone it down' some, then is good IMO
     
  18. JeremyJon

    JeremyJon F1 Veteran

    Jul 28, 2010
    7,569
    Calgary, Canada
    +1
     
  19. SoIllFerrari

    SoIllFerrari Formula Junior
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    Aug 16, 2005
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    CD
    Has anyone driven it? Is it usable?
     
  20. JeremyJon

    JeremyJon F1 Veteran

    Jul 28, 2010
    7,569
    Calgary, Canada
    It was raced and driven on a regular basis
     
  21. tomgt

    tomgt F1 Veteran
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    Feb 22, 2004
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    Tom Wiggers
    #46 tomgt, Oct 8, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2013
    You have Ferrari F40s and F40 Corsa
    some GTs / GTEs have Corsa on the buildsheets ( Michelotto cars)
    F40 LMs have always zffgX34 in the VIN except 74045. One F40 LM GTE has also an X in the VIN all other non Michelotto/Ferrari cars are conversions. These cars are not called F40LM or GTE.
    I have a few build sheets and the 'LM's are F40 Corsa. Maybe other telaisti can shine a light if there are other names on the build sheets. The list of official Michelotto and Corsa cars are listed here on Fchat


    19x F40 Corsa, Michelotto 1 to 20 (17 not used)
    No 13 is 74045 which was later modified into "GTE"
    6x F40 "GTE", Michelotto 1 to 6, I don't know what "vettura" name is on the build sheets of Michelotto
    Then there are a few (CSAI)GT's also build by Michelotto, of which one became a "GTE" sn 94362, so it could be buildno. 7. (??)
     
  22. torquespeak

    torquespeak Formula Junior

    Dec 24, 2010
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    UK
    Full Name:
    Ed
    "We are told that this conversion never took place so the car was effectively a static display vehicle for over 20 years, before being sold to the current owner by one of their clients, at which point the vehicle started its transformation back to the exceptional example you see today."
    https://www.silverstoneauctions.com/1989-ferrari-f40

    -Ed
     
  23. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    Dec 1, 2000
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    what, not same VIN/car as Roland's?
     
  24. torquespeak

    torquespeak Formula Junior

    Dec 24, 2010
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    UK
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    Ed
    Tagging it onto the previous list as it is one of the only references to s/n 80726 on fchat.

    This car clearly wasn't at various gatherings in the late 1990s in modified form. No sir. Definitely not. Must have been a different car. ;)

    -Ed
     
  25. BarryK

    BarryK Formula 3

    Dec 17, 2016
    1,160
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    Barry K
    So is it correct to call only these 19 cars as LM's?

    Inrerestingly Ferrari's own website say only "about 10" were made in the F40 Competitzione section.

    Ferrari F40 Competizione (1989) - Ferrari.com

    Does anyone know the difference to the 19 above?

    There seem to be shades of grey. What about the 27 privateer conversions? Did they all have the same Michelotto conversion kit? In which case were they parts-wise equivalent to the 19 LM's?
     

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