If we have the money : $3M rare Enzo or the upcoming $3M T.50 ?

I think it is pretty safe to say that the contract has been purposely drafted to scare away the type of people who can scrape together the deposit and then hope to finance the rest somehow later on, on the basis of making a quick buck flipping their allocation or car later down the line.

There will be enough fluid money readily available now within the pool of depositors who have already signed up, to get the car over the line and into production even if GM was run over by a bus next week.

Its going to be a show stopper.

 

Very true.

The process of getting an allocation has been interesting for some for sure. They are very interested in knowing about your ability to finance the car. If they even get a wiff of you being financing it in any way, you're out. Most who put down that 600k £ deposit could care less. Not saying people won't care, just that it will not be detrimental to their lives and accumulated wealth.

That's not the only scrutiny though. My buddy has basically gone through a process similar to those wanting an early Ford GT. A letter and background detailing your car history, your previous car journeys, your plans with the car, your interest in car culture, history and all the rest of it. It's not about not wanting new clients, but they are very particular about what kind of owner they want. If they even sense that you will not drive the car and flip it, they will probably drag you from the building by your feet.
It's not about discriminating anyone without a 50 car garage and all the rest of it. You're more likely to get approval if you have a picture of a dirty Pista Spider with 10k km on the clock and a pic of wooden planks sticking out of the top from the local lumber yard, than if you send in a pic of your climate controlled garage showcasing your line of low mileage Ferrari halo cars.

That's the thing about all of this. Will it appreciate? Probably, but don't mention it during your conversations with GMA.

If Murray was to keel over tomorrow, I think this project is at a stage where it would be seen through. Don't forget that the brief is very clear and that most of his staff was with him for the F1 as well. The right hand zlways know what the left hand is doing, and this is not a gang of first-timers. I would not be surprised if that was factored into the plan somehow.

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Well, perhaps that's not what people want in 2020. thus the struggle to sell 100 cars. I can't afford either, but given the choice, I would drool over the Valkyrie instead; now that's a proper 21st century hypercar!!! It seems that neither will reach production though.

 

Why do you think the T50 will not reach production?

Also, if this is not what people want, why all the rants about missing the gated shifter, cars that are too undrivable on the road and all the rest of it?

The Valkyrie is completely pointless. Too harsh and useless for the road and yet not a proper race car cwant to spend that kind of money going fast, get an actual racecar and enter some races. You can get a proper GTE seat for what a Valkyrie retails for.

But anyway, I digress. Please tell me what info it is that you have that makes you say categorically that the T50 will not enter production.

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Internet rant, I guess. Ferrari stopped offering manuals because no one bought them.

One could argue that any hypercar is pointless. The Valkyrie at least tries to push the performance envelope to the max.

I didn't state that categorically. The current economic state suggests so though.

 

You said "it seems neither will reach production". That is a pretty definitive statement.

The economy? GMA has as far as I know no economical problems and they seem to have everything in order. They have a customer base willing to back them and unlike AM and McLaren they aren't exactly on financial life support. Just because the world is burning in an inferno of disease, does that not mean all of us are suffering financial hardship. GMA strikes me as a small part of the British economy that is not tanking and looking for handouts left and right. They are building a car and this far everything is on track and all numbers are in the black.



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I disagree. The contract has been drafted like that predominantly because there is no major manufacturer behind the project so they either get the money upfront from the clients or they need to borrow to get the production done and I question who would lend them.
Saying to someone “please hand over 2 million dollars and I promise I will give you a car at some point in the future, but if I don’t there is a good chance your money will be gone” (as there is no escrow) doesn’t scare speculators only. It scares serious buyers too. However at this point in time there is enough liquidity for people to throw money at a project like that and GMA is doing the smart thing to take it

I do not question the car will be great and I wish I had the courage to take the plunge. As a driving machine it will be out of this world


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As someone who only got a GT on the third attempt (and you wont believe what I wrote on my third application, let’s say it was not polite), I have a lot of respect for the Ford process.
While it feels quite “arms-off” and impersonal, the buyer does get the impression there is method behind the madness, everyone gets treated the same and no one has the “inside line” on anything. This is a car I will keep more for the philosophy of those who made it and less because it is the fastest, purest etc.



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Enzo all day long. I watched the T50 reveal video with Harry and noticed that Murray couldn’t stop constantly discussing the F1. I’m sure it’s a remarkable car but, to me, it’s the F1 “fixed up a bit”. It’s also a bit too pretty to me. I’m not much for excessive aero, but the T50 sure could have used a little more visual muscle. Lastly, that silly fan in the rear is awful. I listened to it’s functional purpose explanation three times and I still don’t get it. The Enzo is an original masterpiece.

 

I've only now finally got round to watching Harry's video. Gordon's passion about his car is great. I love the engine, gearbox, lack of excessive bodystyling...This is a car that won't look dated in a hurry. I also like Gordon's comments regarding the DCT boxes having a lack of emotion...wonderful as they are in swapping cogs round, the single clutch box in a Scuderia/GTO does give more emotion.
Also what I noticed in the video...the rear end! I love the taillights but I couldn't get over the rest of the rear. Something feels ''off''. And I loved it in pictures....but in a moving image it looked wrong to me. I had the opposite with the Ferrari F12, where in pictures I (still don't) like the G string rear end, but in video/real life it looks excellent.

I think the Enzo looks great, sounds great...is great. Gearbox might not be as fast as DCT or even the Scuderia, but I think it just around passes for ''acceptable'' today. Fit some modern tyres and brake pads and I'm sure even against todays Ferrari's it'll put up a very decent fight. And those doors.....Such theatre!

Compare it to it's younger sibling, the Laferrari...which in my opinion is nothing short of excellent, the LaFerrari has only 2 real drawbacks: The battery life and cost to replace (which is significant) and, one that's more related to just myself...it'll be easier for me to get into an Enzo with a different seat than the Laferrari, which options are rather limited for myself height wise.

 

Excellent post.
The Laferrari is ageing very well.
T50 will be nice in full black for my taste.

 

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annnnd? Of course he discusses it! It's one of the greatest road cars ever built and he was the chief designer! The T.50 is the successor to that car and will undoubtedly be directly compared to it.
.
btw, you can buy an Enzo (great car) for $2 mil. An F1 (greater car) will cost what, $15 mil min.? hmmmm - The market speaks the truth. (flame suit on)
.

 

Odd how you quoted one sentence from my post. Again, my point was, I'm sure the T50 is an amazing car, but it's an evolution on the real masterpiece - the F1, whereas, in my opinion, the Enzo is a remarkable original. Particularly from a design standpoint, I think the T50 is a bit underwhelming. As I stated earlier, I would have loved to see a little more aggression in its design. The Enzo can never be accused of being too subtle. But, it's Murray's creation and he loves his creation, so more power to him. Regardless, it will be a success.

 

I have no clue what the meaning of this photo is.

 

I think that's a very incorrect assumption.

The T50 is every bit as original as the Enzo.
There are nothing carried over from the F1, and there is 28 years between the T50 and F1.
The Enzo uses a lot of tech that was refined in other cars. The F1 gearbox, the engine, the brakes, the ESC etc. It was all an evolution of something.

Interestingly if you look at the T 50, while it is related to the F1, you cannot find a single piece that is a carry-over. Yes it has a three seat layout, and? The cars prior to the Enzo and after were two seaters.

You may think it is underwhelming, but its clean lines are exactly what will make it contemporary in 10 years. Whether you like the look of the Enzo or nkt, it looks dated. And frankly, Luca's whole thing about no wings because it ruins the elegant lines is such nonsense with the Enzo. It might not have a big wing, but it has so many big gaping holes, aggressive creases and angles, that a wing would make no difference. Yes some like the Enzo, so.e don't. I think all those angles, that odd rear top lip and the strange nose makes for one hell of a mess. The F50 was more elegant despite its wing, so so much for no wings. The LaF is cleaner and nicer than the Enzo, I like that a lot. But it is for all intended purposes still a car with a lot going on and it cannot be called clean.

Some prefer the striking looks, others a more timeless clean look. I think many will take kindly to this like they did the F1. If the looks of the T50 can be called anything, it would be timeless futurism.

Now there's a paradox if I ever saw one lol

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I wouldn't call the T50 timeless. More like uninteresting or unremarkable. Borders on boring at that price range. The F1 looked good from the front and still does but is dated in the other views. For the Enzo you have be in its presence to understand.

 

never a truer word said - every time I drive one, work on one or stand next to one - I find myself drawn into it. The best way to describe it is mesmerising, in a way that no photo can replicate. I sometimes find myself just standing back staring at a particular feature or angle, not many cars can stop you dead like that.

 

It's a remarkable car. I'm not really sure what "dated" means in the context of a car. It's a piece of automotive history from the past, so, of course, it's a product of another era. The same can be said of a 275, but who can deny that it's magnificent? Certainly, it's subjective and no car appeals to everyone. To me, the Enzo is a brute of a car and its design is spectacular. While I'm no fan of silly and excessive aero (Lamborghini Veneno comes to mind), I do love aggressive styling. Few cars have the impact of the Enzo - similar to the 250 TR, the Countach, the LaFerrari.

 

MacMurray. (sorry)

 

Dated simply means that it looks its age. Sometimes that is a good thing, sometimes not. Sometimes a period has a "style" which does not age well. I'm quite sure you know what I mean, so no need getting into more detail.

In other words, it's the opposite of timeless. The good thing about a timeless design is, that it tends to be viewed equally favourable over time. A car that is dated can be either. Some cars we look at with pleasure and think, " they don't make them this beautiful anymore" e.g 250 Lusso or Jag E Type. And sometimes we look at it and go " what the hell were they thinking" e.g Enzo or 412. Of course it is personal, but dated can be both good and bad.

But more often than not, it's a more polite way of saying out of style.

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Well that's why it is great that there are plenty to choose from. We can't all like the same.
No matter how many ti es I stand in front of an Enzo, it does very little for me. It just does not gel with me.

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Well, in that case, the Enzo is “timeless”.

 

Interesting. What do you think of the F50?

 

I’m a big fan of all the Ferrari Supercars