If this is true, I feel bad for Cayenne owners.

Bro
It's a puzzlement.
ILuv
Before you make stupid statements do some homework. Oil changes on the Cayenne are 20K. First engine service is 100K. Great warrantee. Free 24/7 roadside. Free loner car. My wifw has 10.5K miles on her's since Aug. Problems? Zero. You LUV F cars? I've owned them for over 30 years, and driven them over 300K miles. I've repalced engines, trans, suspentions, repainted them because of poor paint, had them rust through, had wheels come off at speed, had clutch cables snap, AC systems give up, heater hoses explode, hood struts give up, dash board leather rot out, water leaks that couldn't be fixed. I could go on. Compared to F cars the Cayanne is a rock.

 

Napolis....I have done my homework and my statements aren't stupid. No need for personal insults here. Perhaps you misinterpreted what I was saying. First, this topic isn't f-cars vs. the Cayenne (f-cars defy explanation)....it's related to the depreciation of the Cayenne.

I am not referring to expensive maintenence while under warranty, I am referring to a used car that is out of warranty and maintaining it. Although the Cayenne may not need a tune-up until 100k miles, surely the odds are it will need other items (like brakes or some warranty repair) before then. If someone buys a new car with a 4 year warranty, there is peace of mind for 4 years. If buying a 3 year old car with a 4 year warranty, it only gives the buyer 1 year of warranty before the checkbook needs to break out. Additionally, that 3 year old car will probably need other items, like brakes, tires, battery, or whatever that add to the cost of ownership. Add that to the increased finance cost of used vs. new and you have an equation that leads consumers to buy new.

According to your post, no problems since August. Ok, but lets face it, would you rather have a warranty or not right now?

 

Expensive to maintain compared to what? What do you think it will cost to maintain an out of warrantee 360 F1? My F cars cost $2.50 a mile all in easy. What did your boxter cost you per mile all in? I've never had ANY F car go 10K miles without a problem. My 308's engine was replaced at 4K and my TR engine had a 42K warranty claim at 6K miles.
My New Maser had a no start, faulty seat motors (2) , very poor AM radio, glitched traction control, oil leaks,stalling problem, trans upgrade,display upgrade, all in it's first 4K miles. You did your homework?
You read JD Powers? Notice where P is? Notice where F is?

 

It's true - I was shocked when I heard that you only need an oil change after tens of thousands of miles. German engineering...grrrrr

 

I don't think the marketplace is giving the Cayenne a hard time because it's not a great vehicle..........it is........I personally think it's because of the perception that it's not worth the MSRP in the first place.

Please note that I have not yet been able to actually buy one at the prices that I have been offered them at either.

Everything goes down in value sooner later.....but sometimes manufacturers help without realising it, by setting the bar too high to begin with.

 

Like I said, I am not comparing F-cars to the Porsche. I think someone buying a F car has the understanding that it will be an impractical transportation method that is expensive to buy, own and maintain. That is part of the expectation going in. No need for JD powers. However, even in F-car pricing, there is still a simmilar alternative F-car equation. For example, if a 328 was only $5k less than a 360, most people would opt for the 360. Simmilarly, if a 1999 360 were only $5k less than a brand new 360, most would opt for the new one.

There is no doubt in my mind values are affected by alternatives. Would you want to own that new maser without a warranty or with one if the payments for each were the same????? Reinforces why the used values go down quickly!!!

 

Napolis, also "expensive to maintain compared to what?"...........Other alternatives within the same class. Can't compare maintaining a Ferrari sports car to a Porsche SUV.

 

Jim,
Watch that oil change interval.
I have an ML320 with 38k mi. oil changes with Mobil 1
every 10k mi. at dlr. and I started having oil consumption
issues at 30k. dealer is watching it.

KDS,
As I say ill timed debut.

Hell when the Cayenne came out everyone was wondering
what Jesus was going to lease.

 

Bro
I change every 5K anyway. So far consumes 1 quart per 5K miles. (Which they say is normal). BTW that's why F gave me a new 308 engine. 1 quart every 500 miles. New engine was better.
Best

 

ILuv....

If you have owned many P-cars, you will know they are among the best engineered and built cars going. Even the newer ones which are admittedly not on the same quality plane as the Porsche of old (not by a long way). No Ferrari is going to compare to a Porsche of equal performance in the reliability or quality of engineering sphere. Actually.... if you compare price, target market and segment and engine size relative to overall performance, Porsche pretty much smacks Ferrari around across the board. If you want to talk style and passion.... thats a different story.

Folks dont understand why long term Porsche fanatics like me hate the pepper-wagen and lament the modern ruination of this company? Let me explain:

Porsche built sportscars. Thats all they did. The entire company was built on the premise of building the absolute best sportscars on the planet. They really committed themselves to developing the best cutting edge engineering and producing the best quality cars regardless of difficulties. They then proved that they were the best by putting their cars on the racetrack and dominating international sportscar competition. To Ferry Porsche and the other fathers of this company, racing and winning was as critical to their companies success as was putting out a quality product.

550 spyder, 356 Carrera, 718RSK, 904, 906, 907, 908, 910, 911RS, 911RSR, 917, 934, 935, 956, 962...... over 40 years of consistent domination of every class of international sportscar racing they entered. If you were racing sportscars at the top level and Porsche decided to enter your arena and class, you either switched to racing the Porsche or you got your butt handed to you on a platter. Its just that simple. 17 Leman victories and countless other international wins is proof of this winning attitude. NO other manufacturer has so dominated in its overall racing efforts as Porsche. No, not even Ferrari.

This attitude led to success in the marketplace. Porsche did struggle from time to time and their overall growth was limited by their designated market niche. They didnt care. They stuck by the principals that made the company great. They produced fantastic cars. With a new Porsche you could take it from the dealers lot to the racetrack and flog the crap out of it without concern for it falling apart. You knew the build quality was going to be fantastic. You knew it was going to be thrilling to drive. You knew it was going to be a PORSCHE.

My 1969 911S is amazing. Its small, lightweight, has very peaky power delivery and feels like a go-cart. Handling, braking and acceleration and phenomenal given its engine size. Build quality even after 34 years is amazing. That car is simply engineered to the "nth" degree and is incredible to drive. Sure, its a no compromise machine. No A/C, no power options, no luxury crap at all. Its about pure performance and engineering excellence. I love it.

About 7 or 8 years ago all this changed. Porsche management had major changes. The decision was made to dramatically cut costs, build cars to a price even if quality suffered and expand the product line. Porsche decided to abandon all that had made it great in the name of higher profitability. They decided that putting more money into expanding into different product types such as the SUV was more important than developing and proving their engineering excellence through top level racing. The racing program was shelved..... the SUV was built.

Porsche is not the same company. The "new" water cooled 911 (996) comes with an engine that if put on the track is at risk of suffereing oil starvation. The factory will not honor warranty claims if the car has been tracked. Sure you can have an oil pan update done to address this... but Ferry Porsche is rolling in his grave at the prospect his company is producing a 911 that is not track worthy right out of the box.
Ask your Porsche dealers service manager to discuss engine design and engineering quality in the new water cooled 6 as compared to the 993 engine. He will laugh out loud!

Sure the company still does build amazing sportscars in the GT2, GT3, TT and the new Carrera GT. But I have many friends who are long term Porsche owners who now have Boxters and 996s. They tell me the build quality is nothing like the older P-cars. They report the quality of interior parts and such is hardly on par with todays Japanese cars.

Porsche is not the company it once was. They have abandoned all the principals that guys like me fell in love with. They care more about the dollar sign and the bottom line than they do about building the best cars. Ferry Porsche was fanatical about building the best. Todays management is fanatical about profits and profits alone.

The Cayenne is only the most obvious symbol of this. Still, its is the flagship symbol. Thus, I hate it. I will never own one no matter how much they depreciate. Nor will I ever purchase any new car from Porsche and thus support their destruction of the ideals I loved about the company. No, Ill keep driving my old 911 and watching videos of 917s crushing all competition.

I do know all the good sounding business reasons demanding the company start building trucks. Whatever. I still think long term the company would sell more cars by winning LeMans than by trying to compete in an already too crowded luxury SUV market. Time will tell.


Terry

 

Terry
Check out "A French Kiss With Death" Great book on 917's.

 

Terry, perhaps I am not getting my point across. I repeat another time......I am NOT comparing a Porsche to a Ferrari................I agree that overall the Porsche is a better designed and more reliable car than a Ferrari. >>>>>>I am ONLY discussing WHY used cars depreciate in value and why some depreciate faster than others (read...Porsche vs. Toyota vs. Lexus vs. Mercedes etc....)

 

Also, I want to be clear that I am not implying that I like, or dislike the Cayenne. Merely the depreciation of a vechicle.

 

The list of SUV's in the Turbo Cayenne's class is a short one and none except for the turbo can cruise at 165. Ever price per mile on a Lambo SUV or any 100K SUV? MB GW, H1? Trucks that can cruise at 165 cost more to maintain. Not surprizing.

 

Jim et al:
I agree that the Cayenne is not a BAD car, but it is ugly to my eye, and I feel it is a waste of resources Porsche could have used to bring out a new 911 or even 928-like vehicle to compete with BMW(ugly 6 series), jag(old chassis XKR) and Maser(styling and build not where it needs to be yet). We have had several Range rovers, one a Callaway, and both were great trucks, reliable(!!!), and fun as hell when you mire them up to the doorhandles in goo. Lousy mileage, fair drive dynamics, but not trying to be a sport sedan as well.

We have had Ferraris as well, and I had a daytona that was an incredibly reliable driver, blew some smoke, needed guides, but ran great. Old SWB was a hoot, gearing too long for town, but like all 250's, ran and ran and ran. You can use Ferraris daily, but their focus is not daily transport. Masers seem to have become Ferrari-lite, and I shuddered at the Kubang and the Audi tie-in.

Porsches are neither fish nor fowl anymore it seems. Why has VW-Audi-Porsche become a hi-end GM, with vast arrays of cross competing product, some of which the world didn't ask for? Why buy a Cayenne, when a Toureg will do the same, and the diesel, if we ever get it, will do even better? Neither mywife, nor I suspect yours will drive 165 4 up till the tank runs dry, and I would rather do that in our 750 than in a truck with a CofG that is higher than the roof of your P! Jumpng jacks on stilts is the only analogy I can find for the feel I get behind the wheel of these things.

I have been a huge BMW fan for years as daily drivers, I just sold my beloved E39 M5 after 4 years and 35K miles, never let me down. Our '01 E38 750il, bought after I drove the E65, has 32K miles on it without even an inkling of the huge problems the new car has. The styling is ugly, but more importantly, like Porsche, the company has lost its focus. Krispy-Kreme doesn't sell Pizza, and in this market, our favorite car companies need to refine what they do best before they diversify.

FWIW, and Keep the P4 pics coming, Jim
Lee

 

Lee
There's a new P4 photo today. This thing has a very cool ride height adjustment that hunkers down to 5.5 inches and up to 11.5. I can tell you that hunkered down at speed the ride is amazing. I really believe on the abonn you could drive this thing at 165 untill the tank ran dry with less strumm and drang than you could do in my old 275GTB which got a bit squirmy if you backed off at that speed. Hey it's a truck it's not a 360 or a 750 but that's what she had before. When her 750 hit 150K miles she wanted something new. She looked at the new 750 and said "Too Ugly/Too much computer" She saw the Cayenne in the New Yorker and said "This is what I want." She bought it. It's her car/truck but I was surprized to find out how much I like it.
Best

 

Napolis, Exactly. Short list. Exactly my point, "Trucks that can cruise at 165 cost more to maintain." Ok, there's your explanation why they depreciate fast!!!

 

Also, Napolis, don't forget......the trucks on this 'short list' are usually utilized by people who never get to appreciate the abilities of their vehicles!! How many soccer-moms get to really drive their G-wagons and Hummers off road??? A SUV that can go 165........not many buying these will ever see north of 110. Paying for "what it could do" more so than "what I need it to do" based upon a 'look at me in my new car' factor doesn't translate well into the used car marketplace.

 

This is interesting and it doesn't look like anyone has posted it yet:

Autoweek: Porsche gets accustomed to selling Cayennes

 

Very Interesting. From a $ point of view this truck is a major home run for P.

 

I think I read that their profits are up 21% (last quarter?) and they attribute it to the Cayenne.

A few years ago (before it had reached production) one of the Porsche big wigs said that unless they get a chunk of the SUV market, they were in big trouble. Seems they were right.

 

>>you could drive this thing at 165 untill the tank ran dry with less strumm and drang than you could do in my old 275GTB which got a bit squirmy if you backed off at that speed. Hey it's a truck it's not a 360 or a 750 but that's what she had before. When her 750 hit 150K miles she wanted something new. She looked at the new 750 and said "Too Ugly/Too much computer" She saw the Cayenne in the New Yorker and said "This is what I want." She bought it. It's her car/truck but I was surprized to find out how much I like it.<<

Thanks again for the pics of the project, such a pretty car, and it doesn't need designer-babble to justify the lines 8^)

Funny you mention it, but the same thought has crossed my mind as well...we can drive lots of cars now as fast or faster than the supercars of not-to-long-ago, and do it with no drama, no pre-flight, no skill, really. Amazing. Have to go a LOT faster to get a rush out of cars these days. A 166 drifting at 60 is as spooky as a 360 at double that, plus the wires flex, slip angles are huge, and there is no ASC/airbag/bonehead-proofing to save you. Sigh. Guess there aren't refrigerator chat boards either. Hope they keep some passion in these things.

Sounds like we married similar women. Lo had an M3/4, decided she wanted a truck since we moved up in the hills here in TX. After 2 RR's, we tried a Jag VdP S/C( how bad could such an old design be, right??). After 4 months ownership, 5K miles, 30 days in shop, 2 sets of tires, new suspension bushings/settings, and 4 roadforce balances, the rep told my wife her car "was within spec" with a 1/4 " wiggle in the wheel at 60mph. I thought she was going to punch him. I took a 25K hit on that thing, and though she loves their look, we won't be back.

She liked the 750, but I swapped the rear end to a 3.15, and put 245/275 Pilots on it, couple other fiddles, now she loves it more than her old M3. We use it like a light plane, and compared to the Bangle butt new car, it is fabulous. Our local MB dealer is worthless, and Porsche here is so arrogant, she won't walk in, even though she likes the car, 'cuz she knows I'll ***** every time it goes in for something. I have no clue what to replace the 7 with when it is time. Guess I'll have to get her a DB9 Volante to keep the miles down on the 7 8^P. And it has room for 2 carseats for the babies unlike the Z8 or the Maranello. Hmmmm.

I must wonder what that lovely motor would do in a Bentley Continental sized coupe with AWD, for oh, say the same money? Mmmmmm.

Lee

 

Yes. I'm driving the third most reliable car made in 1997.

Porsche is on top for reliability. Ferrari is... well.. Ferrari!

 

Mercedes-Benz sure has gone down hill big time. I am not surprised.

Looks like good old Land Rover is where they always have been as well.

 

truly amazed to see M-B below the industry average!