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If Ferrari announced all cars will be manual again, what percent of current sales would they have?

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by sixcarbs, Jul 19, 2018.

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What percent of 2018 sales would Ferrari sell if ALL cars came with a tradiitonal manual stick?

  1. 120%

    6 vote(s)
    6.3%
  2. 110%

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. 100%

    12 vote(s)
    12.5%
  4. 90%

    3 vote(s)
    3.1%
  5. 80%

    5 vote(s)
    5.2%
  6. 70%

    6 vote(s)
    6.3%
  7. 60%

    4 vote(s)
    4.2%
  8. 50%

    6 vote(s)
    6.3%
  9. 40%

    11 vote(s)
    11.5%
  10. 30%

    43 vote(s)
    44.8%
  1. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    Goes both ways. Folks are just as entitled to post disdain as admiration. Just trying to kindly explain why you'll see lot of the former for this topic.
     
  2. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    Here is one of many threads that have discussed the topic, there are 10 more where that came from. Each time the conclusions are the same. If you don't already know what the end result is, have fun!

    Kind regards.
     
  3. TheDiffuser

    TheDiffuser Formula Junior

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    Seriously are those stars real???



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  4. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    TheDiffuser likes this.
  5. paulchua

    paulchua Cat Herder
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    #30 paulchua, Jul 20, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2018
    On an existential level, I've wondered why this topic is so hotly debated and can sometimes flare tempers. Here are my thoughts, if you would all indulge me.

    I think the manual becomes representative of not just the transmission itself but the Ferrari that many remember it as. Perhaps once slightly more available or for whatever personal reason a 'better' time for the car and company. Rejection or defense of DCT seen as a rejection of the "Ferrari" ethos. A poisoning of the pure waters flowing from Enzo's tears. We've seen it in different manifestations in 1969, and again in 1999, then still in 2015.

    The truth is, and whether one likes it or not, most people buying a new Ferrari out of the dealership either don't care or prefer DCT.

    Full Stop.

    They are the one keeping the lights on at the Maranello plant; they are the ones not rejecting in mass 812/488s and going to the Porsche dealership to get a GT2 RS. In the end, Ferrari is a business in making money; sure it's original intent was to further the racing program, but with Sergio recently saying he couldn't care less if SF were to leave F1, the cart has moved behind the prancing horse; and the priority now is with the shareholders.

    Of course one does not have to love this, lament it, nash your teeth, yell from the mountaintops. Lewis Hamilton and Gordan Ramsey won't hear you in their LaFerrari with DCT. Neither would the venture capitalists in their Portofinos. They're too busy enjoying the ms shift times, and Formula 1 derived technology they not only expect but often demand.

    On a more cynical note, I think manual aficionados often use their manual transmission 'choice' as a sort of medal of honor as a way to put down the latest offerings. I've driven a manual transmission for over 30 years; let me say, it takes no special skill or extra talent to master.

    Even heel and toeing and rev matching can be picked up after a few sessions. I see some use it as a sort of faux qualifier on what it takes to be a real driver as if all those Formula 1 drivers are poseurs because they aren't rowing their gears.

    You know what I'm talking about, how many of these sort of comments on the interwebs?

    CivicTypeRacer69: "Ya, da Rarri' 812 is stoopood fast yo, but that automatic tranny ain't legit, and I keeps it real."

    FaZnFurious2000: "You know that 488 is aight, but damn I just wished it came in stick bro!"

    Dare I say I've seen the same 'chest pumping' sentiment as our friend "Racer69" above here on fchat, albeit more polished. Great, you know how to drive a manual and somebody else doesn't or chooses not to, so you somehow deserve a trophy for your choice.

    The last DCT I drove was a Lusso, and it was glorious - every bit as thrilling as some of the best manuals I've owned. Would I entertain a stick version? Sure! But as I said earlier, I'm not the target demographic, so I don't pay Sergio's salary so what I think is irrelevant. How many of you would turn down a Pista because it sports a DCT?

    If you want a manual, then get an older Ferrari and REJOICE! You own a piece of history and pray that the anachronism will still be cherished 20 years from now. If so, your purchase will make you look like the wise man apart from the crowd.

    Want a new stick badly? Convince at least 20 percent of the 8,000 Ferrari customers this year to reject their orders because it doesn't come in a stick. Otherwise - the lamentation on here, as well as other forums, is pissing in the wind.
     
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  6. Dan575

    Dan575 Karting

    Nov 13, 2017
    62
    I thought the reason we had DCT now was bc you couldn't go 800 hp manual 812 super fast?
     
  7. kerrari

    kerrari F1 World Champ
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    Actually the question in this thread isn't "which is better", just "how would sales be affected"? Interesting because many enthusiasts who have NOT bought the latest models due to no manual may come back to the fold; but certainly many of the 'brand' buyers would find it all too hard and go elsewhere.
     
    anunakki likes this.
  8. AceMaster

    AceMaster Three Time F1 World Champ

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    I think I would only increase sales
     
  9. AceMaster

    AceMaster Three Time F1 World Champ

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    I have always been a manual guy, and have never driven an F1, but that wouldn't stop me from buying a 458.

    I'm just happy to own an older model with manual tranny
     
  10. read33

    read33 Rookie

    Mar 23, 2017
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    Long Island
    I think it would certainly increase sales, but that might not translate to increased profits due to costs of offering the option.

    My 2 cents regarding preference.... I own and prefer manual sports cars (328 and Mondi t) probably because that's what I grew up wanting and I always thought that the MT offered more control and it more perfectly connected me to the car and the road. I think the notion of more control was unquestionably true in years past, but I don't think it holds true today. Last year I drove an F430 Scud- holy sh*t. That car and that driving experience wanted for nothing.

    It also occurs to me that the production car division at Ferrari was founded on the premise that the production cars are built and sold to finance the racing division. Seems that so many here clamoring for manuals (me sort of among them) also want Ferrari to stay true to its traditional founding principles. In this respect the two desires cannot be reconciled... Imagine Ferrari trotted out race cars with gated shifters next year? ... it would be like Federer showing up at Wimbledon next year with a wooden Jack Kramer racquet.
     
  11. read33

    read33 Rookie

    Mar 23, 2017
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    Before I hear it..... *430 Scud
     
  12. arizonaitalian

    arizonaitalian F1 World Champ
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    For those saying sales would increase;

    I think the OP is saying ferrari would only sell manuals...not both DCT and manual.

    If they only offered a manual transmission no way would they find buyers for all the cars they made last year. (Not many people are going to want a lusso stick, or any of these cars in a stick)
     
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  13. arizonaitalian

    arizonaitalian F1 World Champ
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    Paulchua- you mentioned GT2RS and 4c as manual alternatives?? (Or did I missunderstand you?)
     
    paulchua likes this.
  14. sixcarbs

    sixcarbs F1 Veteran
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    Well, from a personal point of view the results of this poll have been quite disappointing.

    I may do another one in the future, but will hold off for now, that asks how would their sales be affected if they just eliminated the "Auto" position on the F1? What percent of the buyer's only drive their cars in full auto mode?
     
  15. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    Ferrari is a Lifestyle brand whether drivers like it or not. They'll sell each and every car they make if it drives with Nintendo controller. The buyer of the new cars are what matter to them.

    I'm not impressed with Ferrari drivers in general personally. Manual stick or paddles, like Porsche owners or any other sports car, most owners can't drive their cars around the corner without meeting Mr. Tree. I have only met 1 (one) Ferrari owner that I've discussed cornering dynamics and not the best car detailing polish to use. Stick or not, most owners can't drive their cars (I include myself in that comment). Ferrari knows this and they can make an owner feel more competent than he really is with the paddles and electronic nannies.

    Despite Mr. Marchionne being out of the picture, I don't think they're going to start making manual cars again. No matter how much the used crowd whines about it.
     
  16. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    Americans have this really bad habit of thinking of themselves as the center of the universe. I've just been to Europe and Italy on vacation for the last week. Lots and LOTS of stick cars. More stick manual than autos from what I could see, esp. in Italy. Americans are tend to think that because they eat crap Food, can't drive stick and guzzle around in huge SUV's and work Trucks that the rest of the world thinks like they do. Ain't the case ladies and gentlemen.
     
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  17. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

    Feb 16, 2011
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    This is a US vs Rest Of the World thing. People in the US regard manuals as something exotic and difficult to handle. In Europe it is just the norm; everybody can drive one. Technically, a manual is a just relic. I am not all for torque converter autos, but those single and double clutch automated manuals are the best of both worlds. They are basically manuals in the sense that you control when the gears shift. They just shift much quicker than a human hand could ever manage, whilst the driver keeps both hands on the steering wheel, driving the car, instead of dealing with a deficiency of the ICE. On the other hand, one can also potter around; I am not interested in that bit.

    Now, regarding the sales, I reckon that overall they would fall considerably if there was no single/dual clutch automated option. When the last F car was offered with a manual option, only a handful of customers chose it ( I believe less than 10 worldwide). It would dissuade both the hard core enthusiasts due to its inferior performance, as well as those who can't drive manuals.
     
  18. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
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    The manual transmission is a relic of the past. It is now a hindrance to performance driving. The car will go slower, and also 1/2 of the cars safety aids (which makes these high powered machines drivable to the in experianced) would be diminished.

    The shift to autoboxes is not only for performance, but also for safety, I will also add emissions requirements as well. Many things to consider.
     
    timjen88 likes this.
  19. LARRYH

    LARRYH F1 Veteran
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    I think they would continue to sell all they build and that number would remain more or less a similar number as today unless they increased production... I think it would be a bad move to eliminate the DCT ... but it would be nice to offer the manual as an option on a few models .. for example today I have a manual transmission Porsche GT3 touring in production due next month... would I have bought the gt3 as an auto ...I do. not think so as I was also offered a GT3RS which is only auto .. and after considering I kept the manual option on my GT3....
     
  20. joker57676

    joker57676 Two Time F1 World Champ

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    The question really boils down to what percentage of Ferrari customers are true sports car enthusiasts versus people buying an image or status symbol. Ferrari would really suffer a degradation in straight line acceleration, which would really hurt its image to (unfortunately) a good percentage of buyers, at least here in America.
     
  21. nicholasn

    nicholasn Formula 3

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    #46 nicholasn, Jul 22, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2018
    Eh, I don't know, 50% might know how to not stall, but a lot of those people suck at actually driving a stick. I'd argue that fewer than 5% of Americans really know how to drive a manual. I can't tell you how many people I've ridden with/driven behind who sit through several-minute-long stoplight cycles holding the clutch on the floor the entire time, can't shift smoothly to save their life (you don't blip the throttle on upshifts in newer cars with manuals, jeez), and especially don't have a clue how to downshift properly.

    To answer the question though, there would probably be an initial spike in demand as all the manual purists/collectors would jump on the opportunity to buy a new Ferrari with a manual. However, demand would likely fall somewhat drastically after the purist/collector crowd got their cars, as the rest of the market seems to generally be people more concerned with image/stats than anything else.
     
  22. Jack-the-lad

    Jack-the-lad Four Time F1 World Champ
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    The Ferraristi would buy them either way. The rest would buy Lambos.:D
     
  23. INTMD8

    INTMD8 F1 Veteran
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    Weight and size is more of a hindrance to performance but there is no lack of that year upon year.

    Safety aids would not be diminished, you can still buy high hp manual trans cars today and it all still works.
     
  24. anunakki

    anunakki Five Time F1 World Champ
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    Its important to remember we are talking about new car sales, not pre owned. As far as the demographic buying new cars, these people want the newest tech. They dont want a 3 pedal. At least not many of them do.
     
  25. INTMD8

    INTMD8 F1 Veteran
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    All used cars were new once. I think there may be a strong enough case for it if Porsche can bring it back to the GT3
     

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