News

I'd LikeTo Be Educated

Discussion in '365 GT4 2+2/400/412' started by Jack-the-lad, Aug 24, 2016.

  1. Ashman

    Ashman Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Sep 5, 2002
    28,579
    MA
    Full Name:
    John
    Here are my numbers, with the standard caveat that, as Ramboy and Dave Stacy will say, is that no one really knows for sure how many since the factory has never, to my knowledge, published those figures.

    5 Speeds Out of %5
    GT4 2+2 521 521 100.0%
    400 145 501 28.9%
    400i 424 1308 32.4%
    412 270 576 46.9%
    TOTAL 1360 2906 46.8%



    I am fond of pointing out that there are fewer manual transmission cars in the entire series than there were 365GTB/4 Daytonas (1,400+) so that means our manual cars are rarer than Daytonas! Alas, that doesn't mean that they are more valuable!

    Countdown to "How many RHD?" question in 3, 2, 1......

    Followed closely by "First and last serial numbers of each model?" ;)
     
  2. To remove this ad click here.

  3. dstacy

    dstacy F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Jan 23, 2006
    11,062
    GMT -5 & GMT +1
    Full Name:
    Dave

    The answer to the RHD question always amazes me.
     
  4. rubenpadron

    rubenpadron Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 22, 2013
    1,043
    SF Bay Area, CA
    Full Name:
    Ruben
    Great info, thanks guys!

    I've read in a post somewhere (can't seem to find it at the moment) that for 412s, there are 10-12 total 5 speeds in the US. With a total of 270 5 speed 412s, I have a hard time believing that only 10-12 made their way here... Thoughts?

    Cheers!

    Ruben
     
  5. Jack-the-lad

    Jack-the-lad Four Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 22, 2004
    47,480
    Isle of Luci
    Full Name:
    Jack

    I don't know enough yet to have formed an opinion. I would say that right now I'd prefer the 365 just because I think it has more Ferrari "essence" if I can use that term. So, price considered, I'd like to get something as close to the 365 as possible, since I know finding the "right" 365 is probably going to require more time and money than I'm interested in spending at this time.
     
  6. Jack-the-lad

    Jack-the-lad Four Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 22, 2004
    47,480
    Isle of Luci
    Full Name:
    Jack
    Thanks, Jim. This is pretty much the point of my post. I'm looking for information and resources that can provide these details and thereby help me decide which variation would interest me most. Bluemel's original V12 book only touches on the 365.
     
  7. To remove this ad click here.

  8. Ak Jim

    Ak Jim F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Dec 23, 2007
    5,508
    North Pole AK
    I really think these cars, if you will bridge the gap between the vintage and modern cars. I went with the 365 for several reasons. One, it has Webers (also the early 400 do to). Two, knock off wheels, I just think they are kind of cool. Three, while I currently live in an area that doesn't have IM testing I wanted a car (1975 or older) just in case I ever moved to an area that had this. Four, with the Webers I think it is probably the coolest looking engine ever put in a car. Five I was looking for a car with a vintage feel. I know this is difficult to quantify but it was a factor for me. I have newer cars already and I just wanted to have something different.

    Have you had a chance to drive or at least ride in any of these, that might help you decide.
     
  9. wrxmike

    wrxmike Moderator
    Moderator Silver Subscribed Owner

    Mar 20, 2004
    5,929
    AU
    Full Name:
    Michael
    My understanding is that the 412 was never officially sold by Ferrari in the USA.

    BTW there were only 24 RHD 5 speed 412 cars produced
     
  10. dstacy

    dstacy F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Jan 23, 2006
    11,062
    GMT -5 & GMT +1
    Full Name:
    Dave
    The entire series 365/400/400i/412 was never sold by dealers in the US, not just the 412.
     
  11. dstacy

    dstacy F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Jan 23, 2006
    11,062
    GMT -5 & GMT +1
    Full Name:
    Dave
    There are less than 25 400i 5-speeds in the US.
     
  12. To remove this ad click here.

  13. Jack-the-lad

    Jack-the-lad Four Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 22, 2004
    47,480
    Isle of Luci
    Full Name:
    Jack
    I'm drawn to the 365 for exactly those reasons. The more I learn, it looks like it will come down to a carbureted car, manual gearbox, which was in my strike zone from the beginning.
     
  14. Jack-the-lad

    Jack-the-lad Four Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 22, 2004
    47,480
    Isle of Luci
    Full Name:
    Jack
    Slightly off topic, but has anyone ever fabricated a gated plate for the gear lever on these cars, or the 365GTC/4 for that matter?
     
  15. Ramboy

    Ramboy Formula Junior

    Aug 6, 2009
    721
    Stockholm
    Full Name:
    David Ramm
    Here are "my" numbers for RHD:

    365 GT4 2+2 - 136
    400 (carb and injected) - 370
    412 - 87 (of which 24 manual as WRXMike states)
     
  16. Ramboy

    Ramboy Formula Junior

    Aug 6, 2009
    721
    Stockholm
    Full Name:
    David Ramm
    34 412 5-speeds according to my database were last heard of in the US.
     
  17. rubenpadron

    rubenpadron Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 22, 2013
    1,043
    SF Bay Area, CA
    Full Name:
    Ruben
    Thanks guys, great info!

    Cheers!

    Ruben
     
  18. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
    Professional Ferrari Technician Consultant Owner

    Dec 26, 2001
    13,684
    Canada
    Full Name:
    Newman
    Ive only ever driven automatic 400's, both carb'd and injected so Im curious to see how one is with a manual. At least for now without any manual 365-400-412 experience I say with complete bias that an automatic suits this car. I drive with one arm on the door top and one hand on the wheel without being provoked to drive like a teen. Love the car to death!
     
  19. Jack-the-lad

    Jack-the-lad Four Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 22, 2004
    47,480
    Isle of Luci
    Full Name:
    Jack
    Aside from the obvious: tail lights, engine size, hubs, a/t availability.....are there any other significant differences between the 365 and the 400 (manual transmission) that a prospective owner should be aware of?

    You see where I'm headed....365 or carbed 400 with five speed.
     
  20. dstacy

    dstacy F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Jan 23, 2006
    11,062
    GMT -5 & GMT +1
    Full Name:
    Dave
    You really need to sit in each Jack. They "sit" differently. It isn't major but once you've been in each you'll notice the difference.
     
  21. Jack-the-lad

    Jack-the-lad Four Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 22, 2004
    47,480
    Isle of Luci
    Full Name:
    Jack
    Thanks, Dave. I appreciate that kind of subjective input. Can you elaborate a little bit? I doubt I'll have an opportunity to do a comparo-sit :D anytime soon.....

    I'm 6' , 175 pounds, if that matters.
     
  22. dstacy

    dstacy F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Jan 23, 2006
    11,062
    GMT -5 & GMT +1
    Full Name:
    Dave
    Just some real quick observations on 365 vs 400 and S1 vs S2.
    I'm 6'1" and 200. As you might know I've had a series 1 and a series 2 car. I fit in both series cars just fine. My S1 car had a sunroof which was a problem for me but without it no biggie. The 365 felt more vintage to me and I don't know why. Maybe it was the mousehair dash; who knows? I felt the 365 sat lower but I can't prove it does; it just felt like it. An S2 car has more padding in the seats than a S1 or a 365 does. The S2 seats are "plusher" than the early cars. The seats are a bit narrower in a 365 & S1. The dash on the early cars is different than the later cars. The a/c vents on the early cars add a bit more clutter to the dash.
     
  23. rubenpadron

    rubenpadron Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 22, 2013
    1,043
    SF Bay Area, CA
    Full Name:
    Ruben
    Newman, if ever in Northern California, let me know - we'll go for a drive in my 412 manual.

    I'm the opposite, as I've only driven my 412 out of the 365/400/412 series, so haven't driven the automatic version. Although many say the auto suits the car's character, I'm of the thinking that the manual suits it damn well too: the engine is plenty torquey enough that you don't have to constantly down shift unless you feel like it. When you do downshift, the car seems to transform and shrink around you, becoming more nimble as well as surprisingly agile in twisty bits... The sounds from rowing through the gears to or near redline is intoxicating. I don't think I'd ever give up on my manual. :)

    Cheers!

    Ruben
     
  24. dstacy

    dstacy F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Jan 23, 2006
    11,062
    GMT -5 & GMT +1
    Full Name:
    Dave
    Isn't THAT the truth.
    Very well put sir. Great description.
     
  25. Ak Jim

    Ak Jim F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Dec 23, 2007
    5,508
    North Pole AK
    Supposedly there are 3 (yes three) 400s with Webers and 5 speed in the US. And I've heard 17 365 GT4s in North America.
     
  26. dstacy

    dstacy F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Jan 23, 2006
    11,062
    GMT -5 & GMT +1
    Full Name:
    Dave
    #22579
    #24019
    #25735
    #27145
     
  27. dstacy

    dstacy F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Jan 23, 2006
    11,062
    GMT -5 & GMT +1
    Full Name:
    Dave
    I show 26
     
  28. Jack-the-lad

    Jack-the-lad Four Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 22, 2004
    47,480
    Isle of Luci
    Full Name:
    Jack
    So the (domestic) universe of cars I'm interested in is 30 or less. Slim Pickens! Of those, how many are available, and of those how many are anywhere near level 2 or better condition? Very, very few, I'm betting.
     

Share This Page