I think you were bidding on the 575 6spd on BAT today? | Page 7 | FerrariChat

I think you were bidding on the 575 6spd on BAT today?

Discussion in '456/550/575' started by hankcinq, Apr 28, 2020.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. Bradwilliams

    Bradwilliams F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    I'm not grasping for anything. In a normal market, there is not much of a spread between a garage queen/museum car and a driver car. There is a spread, but it isn't that great. The past 5 years has NOT been a normal market, hence the completely insane and asinine spread between driver cars and garage queens.

    I'm not pontificating on anything. Even the bubble that happened in 1989 didn't have this "low mileage" fad thrown in it. That's a new one. But the spread will shrink all the way back to realistic levels during this recession. It was all phoney, and was never real, but the longer bubbles stick around, the more people desperately want to believe, especially when the bubble bursts. You're not going to see any more 50 grand R129s in about 6 months to 2 years from now. All of that money people spent pumping them up will be vaporized. And you'll be left with just a 15 grand car again.

    I'll also bet the farm that you made no money flipping that car or lost money flipping it.
     
  2. F355 Fan 82

    F355 Fan 82 F1 Veteran

    Jul 22, 2006
    9,063
    I did lose money a whole $2k, woopity doo. I wasn't trying to flip it, I originally bought it, my dad has a warehouse full of cars in houston, there isn't unlimited space in there I have a few of mine in there, when I bought an SL600 with even less miles, I made the decision to dump the car for no reserve ie i did not care i just needed it out the way.

    I have recovered financially since that decision.

    Right before I bought mine, I bid on this one up to $39,500 it had 1,500 miles it ended up selling for $46k

    https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2000-mercedes-benz-sl500-17/

    I ended up getting mine with 5k miles a few weeks later for $29,750 so it ended up working out well

    https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1999-mercedes-benz-sl500-29/

    Regardless you're missing the point most of these low mile ones go into collections and nobody cares when they sell or at what price. I just happened to find a better r129 which was an SL600 and didn't have room so no reserve dumped this one and somehow it ends up at the biggest dealer in dubai. Go figure they liked the car.
     
  3. F355 Fan 82

    F355 Fan 82 F1 Veteran

    Jul 22, 2006
    9,063
    dm'd you
     
  4. MaranelloMark

    MaranelloMark Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 24, 2019
    46
    Bay Area, CA
    I agree. Silence is not always golden. Watching that TR on there also. Strange that the seller has not commented at all. And it looks like there were some shills on the 575 as others have speculated. Maybe they were going for a repeat on the TR until this fell apart. It is possible the owner has no idea this is going on. Maybe put his trust into some people who aren't working in his best interests. Who knows, but glad you walked away and your not pushing daisies. Sad about BaT. I like it because there is a lot of good folks on there, but it is ripe for being abused. I purchased a 'little' Healey there a while back (post auction) and not all was disclosed upon receipt inspection. Luckily not a big financial risk, but still... Lessons learned. PPIs, referrals and reputations will govern my next purchase.
     
    Ferrari55whoa and F355 Fan 82 like this.
  5. technom3

    technom3 F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Mar 29, 2007
    14,721
    Phoenix AZ
    Full Name:
    Justin
    Bring a trailer seems full of chandelier bidders these days.
     
    root and Bradwilliams like this.
  6. MaranelloMark

    MaranelloMark Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 24, 2019
    46
    Bay Area, CA
    You would think they have algorithms in place to detect or flag those. I'm not nearly experienced enough no notice but seems there are some who see it from a mile away.
     
  7. Bradwilliams

    Bradwilliams F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    #157 Bradwilliams, Apr 30, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2020
    And you're surprised? I'll bet that site is RIFE with shill bidders. What is stopping them? You would have to be out of your mind to buy a car on that website. I saw a guy selling a low mileage california on there that with only minutes (5 minutes left) left tried to get the price bumped up an extra 5 grand by saying "just so you guys know the reserve is 85" The auction ended at 78 and there was no reserve.

    Check out what that website used to be pre 2014 and look at it today. It used to be buyers coming in to buy fixer uppers worthy of saving. Now? It is almost EXCLUSIVELY garage queens and ground zero for the CC bubble. Just go through the auctions and read the comments. It's all about price, price price, higher , higher, higher, money, money , money. Flip, flip, flip, musical chairs.

    The music already stopped over a month ago on the top end of the market (declining prices)and the lemmings on there are still dancing. Pumping up bmw m3s, r129s etc. and trying ANYTHING to make something out of nothing. Jokes on them. Bag-holders. The Dow could drop to 14k tomorrow and they'd still be on there saying "all is well!, prices will rise again soon!"

    If you could go back to 2012 and tell any car nut (who buys toys here and there to drive) and tell them what was coming soon in the next 5 years (this bubble) they would look at you with disbelief and tell you that you are crazy.

    Hey, guess what, you're about see 180 grand paid for an e39 m5! Yeah right! 100 bucks says that was shill bidder too.

    https://www.bmwblog.com/2018/08/30/bmw-e39-m5-sells-for-record-176000-at-pebble-beach-auction/

    Must have been nice to be in the broker world this past 5 years. A world where you can literally pick up any hunk of metal, no matter how uncollectable, dust it off and then make a market out if it. And have people follow like sheep within months. 1988 ford taurus, but it has 5k miles on it and is therefore rare. I'll take 35 grand minimum.
     
    technom3 likes this.
  8. 19633500GT

    19633500GT F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 9, 2010
    11,924
    Blueberry
    Full Name:
    Muffin-Tops
    Brad really ain’t wrong here.
    If it has low miles and isn’t (too) rusty it could be a Subaru Justy or a Omni. Some fool will be like OMG, 7k original miles!?!?! $20K is a steal for this time machine! Lol
     
    Bradwilliams likes this.
  9. MaranelloMark

    MaranelloMark Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 24, 2019
    46
    Bay Area, CA
    Einstein's theory of relativity applies here. Or, plainly, one mans trash is another man's treasure. Take your pick. But let's not conflate criminal behavior like the shill bidders and investment advice. I think most of us buy these cars because 1) we like them (to drive or covet). 2) have some emotional/sentimental attachment to them and lastly 3) (distant last) that they might appreciate. Obviously a Zastava or Yugo isn't going to appreciate while a 1/80 MT 575 will in all likelihood. The question on both is whether or not we live enough to benefit from it. So really investment is secondary. 1) and 2) don't always have a price-tag. At least that's my two rookie cents.
     
  10. F355 Fan 82

    F355 Fan 82 F1 Veteran

    Jul 22, 2006
    9,063
    #160 F355 Fan 82, Apr 30, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2020
    I think its about what are the odds of finding another. It's simple math man, remember that Gran Torino Wagon that was brand new and got almost $50k on there a few years ago?

    https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1972-ford-gran-torino-4/

    Quick google shows 22,000 were made in 1972, the thing is not rare and its atrocious, nonetheless to someone somewhere the car meant something. Maybe it was dad's car when he was younger, maybe grandma drove one and it brought back memories, whatever it is, not all cars are bought to be driven. That guy wanted a gran torino wagon and he waited until he found the best one he found and he paid up. Was it worth it? Subjective, you and I, certainly brad don't think its worth it, but that guy did. We can't put a price tag on emotions and why people pay what they pay. Someone just paid $800k at a charity dinner for a jersey and dinner with tom brady, same auction someone paid $250k for a double date with russell wilson and his wife, these are silly values for an experience to most, but easy to justify if one has the means.

    The values we see on some of these silly cars are going to guys who just don't care. The type of people who buy a $45,000 129 SL that won't be driven or the type who buy a $50k station wagon that won't be driven absolutely do not care. They are toys and thats all, to some it may be an investment but to others they're just toys. My dad has some weird number i dont know 45 or something just tucked in there and he sits in there washes them himself, does oil changes himself, he loves to tinker with them and most have a story of why they're special to him "x guy had this when i was growing up and i wanted one" "first car i bought when i had money" and alot of them are pretty normal cars like I said he has a 560sec coupe thats got 300 miles, a regular one is peanuts, this one who knows what he paid but he got it maybe 20 years ago and it still looks new, to him its priceless. His warehouse is 30 minutes from his home, outside the city, he has no bigger joy in life than driving out there to stare at his cars. They're not F50's and Talbot Lagos or anything. So what im saying is lots of these guys who run the world now were once kids and you know what maybe a 1998 corolla was their high school car and to them and them only they're willing to bid alot for a perfect one, but wait here comes another silicon valley rockstar who also owned one in high school and now before you know it 2 rich guys bid up a pile of trash to $80k. There is literally no "market" for some of these on BAT they're just love and money and math tells us the odds are very low as some things were not garage queens from day 1, so odds of finding another perfect one are very low.There are way less mint 1972 Gran Torino Wagons available than say Enzo's as every last enzo has been babied from day 1 and every gran torino wagon was driven into the ground.

    So for many, it meant a lot to them, not anyone else, thats an anomaly. The SL, good ones have traded hands in the $40-50k range for a while now, thats not an anomaly, its the going rate for a good example.
     
  11. 19633500GT

    19633500GT F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 9, 2010
    11,924
    Blueberry
    Full Name:
    Muffin-Tops
    One of my good friends has this theory about shill bidding. At least from his perspective he expects it to happen and has made his peace. So, when considering a car (let’s say the 575M had a $92K reserve), and people DID shill it. He would already be comfortable at let’s say $88k, and beyond that, he’s not a bidder. All the shills did is “get it there” and it’s funny when they get caught. Is it unethical? Absolutely, but one should know what they’re comfortable paying and just ignore it because as sad as it is, Gooding, RM, Barrett, BaT, ALL of them are guilty. BaT probably has the least worry because as a third party beyond the PR facade of caring and doing the right thing, their #1 priority is money. That is it. And they are the enigma they are because of this. They deliver a service with massive revenue and very little risk. That’s a business no brainer. My tin foil hate thinks they care very little about shills, and maybe, MAYBE, have they ever participated themselves...? Do you know? I don’t. I have no way to check on the guy who just joined and this is his first bid...

    ok. I’ll calm down :)
     
    Ferrari55whoa and F355 Fan 82 like this.
  12. Ferrari 308 GTB

    Ferrari 308 GTB F1 Veteran

    Feb 21, 2015
    7,716
    Tropical
    Where is Columbo when you need him?
     
  13. etip

    etip Formula 3

    Apr 4, 2004
    2,406
    Washington State
    Full Name:
    Eric
    BAT used to be a lot of fun a few years ago when it lived up to it's name. When it was CL listings and classified link/ ebay auctions. Then it became just an auction site and has sucked. Sure, some cool cars, but not really an enthusiast site like it once was. Oh well....
     
    tritone, technom3, 19633500GT and 2 others like this.
  14. 19633500GT

    19633500GT F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 9, 2010
    11,924
    Blueberry
    Full Name:
    Muffin-Tops
    You mean bidding against the CEO of WeatherTech on a custom K5 Blazer which sold for $300K isn't an enthusiasts dream? C'mon, he owns a GTO!

    (this is 100% tongue in cheek lol)(I too miss the days of seeing some really cool project cars come across the page, and submitted a few of my own, and I don't see that ever going back to the way it was, simply due to what I mentioned above: $$$$$$$$$$)
     
    etip, tritone, technom3 and 1 other person like this.
  15. henryr

    henryr Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 10, 2003
    21,648
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    Juan Sánchez Villa-L

    that certainly is 1 of 1.

    451 miles ?

    dont forget, if you wanted one and had to find one. how many left? POS would cost you $5-10 and then a $100k to restore.
     
    F355 Fan 82 likes this.
  16. henryr

    henryr Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 10, 2003
    21,648
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    Juan Sánchez Villa-L
    i have to say, right or wrong, BaT auctions lend themselves to a bit more confidence vs buying something at BJ and definitely over ebay

    people pay up for that
     
    Ferrari55whoa and tres55 like this.
  17. technom3

    technom3 F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Mar 29, 2007
    14,721
    Phoenix AZ
    Full Name:
    Justin
    Well... They do whack the person's card for about 4k when you bid and they never want to discourage a real bid so until it really starts
    The odd thing is that they don't. They don't back the car. All they do is provide a platform that allows a video to be made. That's about it. You can do that on eBay too you just can't embed it.
     
    etip, tres55 and 19633500GT like this.
  18. henryr

    henryr Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 10, 2003
    21,648
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    Juan Sánchez Villa-L
    not from Bat - from the peanut gallery
     
  19. 19633500GT

    19633500GT F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 9, 2010
    11,924
    Blueberry
    Full Name:
    Muffin-Tops
    Nailed it. Business genius. Hold zero accountability outside of the auction, let’s the two involved parties hash it out. BaT gets their fees, that’s is. That’s all they care about. It’s genius, I mean this seriously.
     
    etip and technom3 like this.
  20. henryr

    henryr Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 10, 2003
    21,648
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    Juan Sánchez Villa-L
    that is diff from any other auction house how?
     
  21. technom3

    technom3 F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Mar 29, 2007
    14,721
    Phoenix AZ
    Full Name:
    Justin
    It makes me so happy for some reason to hear all the people who remember the old bring a trailer that was full of oddities and cool little projects and opportunities.

    I remember if a frame off tr6 was restored to a high level everyone would complain. BUILD IT DONT BUY IT. Etc. It was annoying in a different way but man what a complete 180.

    Now BAT is full of psuedo car guys and hipsters with too much money paying top dollar. Now that there is some attention on it some of the people in the business are their to wrong every last drop out of the rag that is bring a trailer. Shills. No sales and now a bunch of sales aren't even being completed in bring a trailer. So many deals don't even get funded! It's gotten exponentially worse recently.
     
    etip and Bradwilliams like this.
  22. 19633500GT

    19633500GT F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 9, 2010
    11,924
    Blueberry
    Full Name:
    Muffin-Tops
    when you sell a car through Barrett your check comes from Barrett....not the buyer
     
    technom3 likes this.
  23. technom3

    technom3 F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Mar 29, 2007
    14,721
    Phoenix AZ
    Full Name:
    Justin
    Believe it or not gooding and rm and now even Mecum won't let you state certain things without signing affidavits gooding and rm require receipts to say the trans was rebuilt.

    In the last two years they have done a significant more amount of vetting.

    They had too many guys started passing 5s dressed up as 9s and it started to hurt their rep.
     
    19633500GT likes this.
  24. henryr

    henryr Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Nov 10, 2003
    21,648
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    Juan Sánchez Villa-L
    oh from a $$$ transaction point, true

    i actually saw BaT sale rate has held up.. whether buyers backed out - that i do not know
     
  25. technom3

    technom3 F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Mar 29, 2007
    14,721
    Phoenix AZ
    Full Name:
    Justin
    Yes technically they do have some liability and if there is outright fraud at Barret. Blatant lies they will shove the car down the sellers throat.

    That's also why you don't get paid for almost 45 days.
     
    19633500GT likes this.

Share This Page