I just returned from Nurburgring

Thanks for the tips Nurburgringer.

 

Northloop forum, there is an American serviceman on there who regulary rents cars from various companies. He removes the tracker and puts it on a plane at the airbase he works

 

Once I saw this guy driving in a caged car without a helment, I couldn't look anymore.

Dale

 

That car looks like the Renault Clio that you can rent from the RSR site given to us above. If I rent that car too for 4 laps, I won't be bringing my helmet from the US. They may have rentals, but on my first lap I won't be going close to 100%.
Edit: That's a Suzuki, that kid may have gotten it from another Ring rental agency.

 

Wrote a book about it! Actually I put together around 16 pages of info on the Nurburgring.

What do you want to know?

Here are some tips -

- The Nurburgring consists of the Grand Prix track and the Nordschleife. Back in the day the whole track (Gesamtstrecke) consisted of the Sudschleife, Nordschleife, and the Zielschleife/Betonschleife.
- If you have the time, look for the Sudschleife. (The Nordscheife is the big track everyone talks about). The Sudschleife is mostly gone, but there are some remaining parts
- Best place to watch other cars on the Nordschleife is Brunnchen

 

Technically the exclusion isn't for the Nordschleife, but rather a statement in rental car policies that prohibit driving a rental on a one way toll road. The Nordschleife is not named per say, but the Nordschleife is a one way toll road - hence your policy is void if you do go on the track.

There is no tracking devices that I am aware of in any rental cars, HOWEVER there are spotters that cruise the Tourist area looking for their rental cars. It would be really hard for a tracking device to work that way. For instance in photographing the Nordschleife, I followed the track in my rental on service roads.

The exclusion isn't for all German rental car companies, but rather the big/regular ones. IE - Avis, Budget, Eurocar, ect... There are German rental car companies that DO rent just for racing and the Nordschleife.

 

Challenge64, I have seen the tracking device on rental cars from Avis and Sixt. I've seen a rental contract from Sixt that stated you were not allowed to take the car on the Nürburgring. This was from a Sixt rental agency close to the ring. I'm a photographer myself and yes I have received emails from rental companies...

 

Cute, but I doubt rental companies find it very funny. Maybe a bit funnier than crashing their precious 1.6L Golf on the Ring, but I can still image that GI getting a bill in the mail for a new tracker...

The key is not overly abusing the tires/brakes and most importantly not crashing.
If they give you **** about driving a couple tourist laps of the Nordschleife (it is called "Touristenfahrt"), BFD. Frame the nastygram they send you and hang it in your garage right under the map of the NS you damn well better have up there.

Here's an extensive, apparently up-to-date site "Nurburgring for Dummies"
http://heiser.net/documents/nurburgring/#car

"How do I get a car to drive? < back

This can be a hard decision. You've got five choices here:

Ride along in someone else's car &#8212; it may sound silly, but this probably poses the least risk to your wallet and your health. Try to pick someone you trust preferably with decent knowledge of the track. Riding as a passenger is exhilarating, and will allow you to experience the Ring firsthand&#8212;more than most get in life. Join the Ringers forum, post the dates that you plan to be there, and develop some relationships that could lead to passenger rides. Pax laps are very common in the paddock, and even seasoned drivers take advantage of them.


Drive a rental car &#8212; it sounds like a good idea, but the world of rental cars has changed in the past few years with respect to the Ring. Tired of getting their cars back with bald tires and vaporized brake pads, rental companies are now tracking their cars with GPS and hiring people to go to the Ring to spy on you. A friend of mine was banned for life from Hertz worldwide for driving his BMW 1-series diesel on the track. (Update: I've also been banned, so the danger is real.) Some companies have added large charges/fines if your car has significant wear of the brakes or tires. So lap your rental car at your own risk. Caveat renter.

However, if you do choose to rent a road car, there is quite a selection in to be had. You can rent anything from a subcompact up to a Ferrari Enzo in Germany, and insurance coverage varies among the companies. Ask to see a rental agreement in English first. Pay special attention to the deposit on the collision damage waiver&#8212;this can be thousands of Euro and will not be refundable in the case of an accident.

Just for the record I've rented several 911s, a 350Z, a few Mercedes SLK 180s, several Audis, a BMW 1-series diesel, among others. My recommendation for first-timers would be the SLK; it's rear-wheel drive, two seater, and has decent power. An alternative would be an Audi TT or Golf GTI if you can find one. Just don't drive more than two hard laps in a row on these cars or you'll lose the tires and brakes in half a day.


Hire a proper track car at the Ring &#8212; this is quickly becoming a very reasonable and convenient option. There are a number of companies in and around Nürburg/Adenau that can rent you well-prepared cars for use at the Ring. They are usually street cars with a racing interior (seats, cage, etc.) and a suspension/brake setup that can run multiple laps consecutively which is a big bonus. If it's your first time or you are not an experienced race driver, I recommend hiring a car with low horsepower and either front-wheel drive or traction control. Here's a few companies that I know of in the area with a small fleet of track cars:


Rent-Racecar: The owners, Theo and his wife, are absolutely fantastic and make you feel very welcome. They have about a dozen cars. For first-timers I recommend the Golf GTI. I've also driven the E36M3 (no traction control) which is a blast but not recommended for beginners. Experiencing the Ring with Rent-Racecar added a completely new dimension to my appreciation of the track. (This is the only rental company I have personally used, although I plan to try out some of the other companies below.)


RSR Nürburg: Just a few hundred meters up the road from the track entrance is this full-service outfit that provides both rentals as well as comprehensive instruction programs. Their fleet includes a wide range of cars with several new cars models being added in 2009. RSRNürburg also organizes private days for groups or corporations. UK residents may find it beneficial to work through partner Auteg Motorsport to organize and schedule events.


Haus Marvin: A local hotel that also has a small stable of cars for rent. Recommended by a post from the Ringers list.


Rent-4-Ring: Another shop with some smaller but well-prepared hothatches, also recommended by a Ringers list post.


Ringhaus and TTE-Racing: I'm trying to determine if these outfits are still in operation, but they have been previously.


Bring your own car &#8212; this is only really an option for either European delivery of your new car (offered by BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Porsche, etc.) or by shipping your car by boat. If you've got the time and the money to do this sort of thing, please take me with you next time you go. However, consider two important caveats:


You could crash. Remember, you're in the middle of Europe and you're driving the thing that's supposed to be in your garage next month. I met someone from the states who took delivery of his brandy-new GT3 and drove directly to the Ring. And then crashed on the first lap at the top of Pflanzgarten. Totaled. Not cool.


You could be denied entry. I haven't seen this myself, but I have heard reports that the Ring officials can turn away cars that have temporary tags. I don't know if they are looking for all temp tags or just those that somehow give away the fact that you're an American on a Euro delivery trip.


Drive a local friend's car &#8212; not strictly a bad idea, and a better one if you don't really like your friend that much. (Ha.) If your buddy has a hot ride and doesn't mind you pounding on it for a few days, then more power to you! But this is an unlikely option for most people traveling from overseas. Also, consider the guilt factor if you inadvertently restyle the bodywork...
What about auto insurance? Officially, the ring is a one-way public toll road, so the insurance on your rental car is supposed to cover you. However, I wouldn't recommend letting the rental agency know what you're planning. And again, check the rental agreement to see if the Nürburgring is specifically excluded. As an aside, my US insurance did not offer me any additional coverage, but yours may. Make sure you check. Crashing Porsches can get pricey. Ferraris even more so.

People who use their credit cards to cover auto insurance should also be very careful here. Most cards specifically exclude sports cars or vehicles over $50,000 in value. I found that my American Express Platinum didn't cover most of the cars I had in mind. My US auto insurance similarly did not offer any coverage. Make sure that you know the facts before you get behind the wheel.

You're also liable for damage to the Ring as well, including Armco, towing, cleanup, and other amenities. A clever idea is to join the European equivalent of AAA which is called ADAC which will cover your towing costs instead of paying cash to the Ring flatbed.

So, what kind of car should you drive? It will be very tempting to rent the fastest, most powerful car you can. Please take this advice to heart: track knowledge and experience are everything at the Ring, and a high-horsepower car will only magnify the mistakes you will undoubtedly make. Choose something that you would feel comfortable driving on a mountain road in a downpour, because sometimes that's exactly what driving the Nürburgring is."

 

That is one of (the many) rules they have. Somewhere I have a picture of the rules in English that says no temporary tags.

As for the tracking devices, I would believe Avis uses them at their rental agencies near the ring, but after 20+ years of renting Avis cars out of Munich, I have yet to see one. That is probably why I have been able to drive all around the service roads of the Nordschleife with out any issue.

 

Actually, the Nordschleife is the only one-way toll road in the whole country.

 

First, thanks for all the information and tips for the Ring. I finally have some time to update you on my experience there, so here it goes:

After unfortunate difficulties and delays, I arrived at the Ring on July 13th around 6pm. Due to these delays I was unable to book a rental car, but luckily enough I received a Mercedes C270 CDI (combi and manual) from a family member. I started my drive from the Mosel River and sure enough it started to rain. Sigh. But whatever, 45min later I was there! I bought two laps, admired the R8, Ruf Porsches, Jag XKR's etc... and started lap One. Not even 30 seconds into the lap I see the yellow flag and see some noobie crashed out on the first right hand corner. The cleanup crew was there and oil was on the track but as soon as I cleared it I floored it again. Soon after I looked back and a tuned 370Z passed me on the left. He had more than 3 corners worth of experience. I kept racing and for the first time I noticed how hilly the racetrack really is. Youtube videos and Forza Motorsport 3 don't do the track ANY justice. It's simply amazing how many altitude changes there really are. You have to experience it to understand it. After the carousel a tuned smurf blue Scirocco passed me and then the track was clear. The driving was so exciting that when it was over I thought I completed lap 1 with a world record (clearly not though).
I took a small breather and started Lap 2. I was taking corners a bit faster, accelerating a bit more, braking a bit more aggressive and most importantly I was having a BLAST! This time no cars passed me!! woohoo! I'm going to think it was due to my advanced driving techniques but it's realistically due to the heavy rain.
In short, both laps were incredible. I loved every minute of it and will do it again next some time. It was so amazing that I am making that experience a Life Requirement for every man that knows anything about cars.

Prost,
B

 

I'm sorry, but the idea of running a track with no roll cage/6-point harness/HANS/gravel traps and a bunch of crazy Germans just doesn't do it for me.

Plus, I have heard stories about crazies drinking beer in the parking lot.

Dale

 

Sounds like you had a great time, William!

 

I did it last year and it was awesome.

http://autos.sympatico.ca/premium-features/7905/xbox-vs-reality-driving-the-worlds-most-dangerous-track

 

Very cool! Any pics?

Agree that driving the Nordschleife is a 'must do'. Only problem is it's more addictive than crack...
I'm hoping to make my 15th visit next year with my father and brother.

All that protective gear is nice to have, however if driven sensibly in a suitable car at 8/10's the Ring is arguably no more dangerous than a twisty mountain road. Less so since there's no 2-way traffic (except for that guy who spun a few times at Hoehe Acht and continued on, the wrong way....).
Sure you have to be constantly on the lookout for GT3s/local bikers/ring Viper or Taxi etc approaching at full boil and move promptly to the far right, and I do wear a helmet when driving or riding in even in the humblest of rental cars, but it's still called touristenfahrt for a reason.
What do you mean by 'drinking beer in the parking lot', that they drove on the Ring afterwards?! I wouldn't bet that that never happened, but as normal rules of the road apply to the NS on public days doing that would be supremely foolhardy.
cheers
Kurt

 

Meh. Driving (not racing) on a track is much safer than daily driving. Also, in Germany Beer is considered a food, so those drivers were only hungry.

 

It's not good driving a car after you drunk or drinking while you driving not good habit. But different people have different opinions. Some are agree with me and some enjoy drinking while driving.

 

I just returned from the 'Ring and 'Ringer knows his stuff. Every track I have ever been on is mickey mouse in comparison in terms of complexity, nuance, speed, elevation change and danger. 20 Kilometers and about 300 meters of elevation change and rarely is there more than 10-20 ft of runoff before a guardrail. The truly fast do it in under 7:30, which translates to nearly 100 mph average speed.

I rented from RSRNurburg and they are a class outfit with everything from Renault Clio to 997 GT3 RS for rent and instruction to go with it.

The Tourist sessions are simply insane - so insane I won't go back for one. I did 2 late afternoon sessions (about 5-7:30 p.m.) and a Saturday and EVERY SINGLE TIME the track was eventually closed due to the crashes. On Saturday the track was never open for more than 45 minutes at a stretch due to the crashes. I had 2 very near misses when (1) a guy trying to stay ahead of me spun and compounded the error by not going two feet in so my evasive manouver almost collected him (and he did hit the guardrail); (2) a motorcyclist that went right (I thought to let me overtake) was actually planning to go to the apex and I missed him only because I had enough room to leave the track and miss the guardrail.

That said I was going pretty quickly - you can't do flying laps, but I was lapping the FWD Clio in about 10 minutes including the line to go back through the toll gate. When you try to go fast the risks go up exponentially due to all of the overtaking necessary to maintain decent pace.

I have no interest in returning except for private trackdays, as I'd want to improve my pace and that is damn near impossible with the traffic and crashes.

In all, I mananged 23 laps.

To emphasize how dangerous and scary it is, I have raced at a pretty high level for over 10 years and I actaully got out of the 997 GT3RS I had rented and stepped back down to a slower car. The car was too fast for my knowledge base and the traffic and I was more scared than I have ever been in a race car in actual races.

All that said, the 'Ring is an absolute must, but I can't overemphasize the danger and need to prepare. My personal strong suggestions:

1. Do lots of laps in GT5 or the like to at least learn where the track goes and get some visual cues (but don't think that just because you can run a 7:40 you can do it when you get there).

2. Rent locally. It is expensive, but the risk of damage is very high and the local cars are also much better than a standard Hertz or Avis car.

3. Wear a helmet - you are a fool if you don't IMO

4. Rent a slow car with ABS and stability management and use the driver aids. Unless you are running WOT in that car comfortably in all the fast sections you'd be wasting the power of a faster car. I passed plenty of Porsches and motorcycles in my Clio just by rolling speed, especially downhill.

 

To give you an idea how dangerous it is during touristenfahrten:
http://www.input-aktuell.de/mainframe.asp?n=1&newsid=34823 This was last weekend, a week before this a biker crashed and didn't make it... Balance, 2 deadly accidents in a week time.

 

Dangerous indeed. I have read that an average of one person dies per month on the 'Ring, and having been there first hand, I think that average has to be higher now.

The RSR guys say that on days when it is raining or track is wet that 10-20% of the cars crash before the day is out.

Oh and even dry days the track tends to be wet early in the day from dew and tree cover that keeps the track shaded.

 

I took a couple laps of the 'ring on a vacation one time in a VW GOLF GTI...

That place is the real deal.

I had been racing cars for 10 years and my wife came along for the ride. She said, "I can smell your sweat"....I laughed and said, "yeah, you would be sweating too out here working your arse off in a rental car" - many expensive cars wadded up the day I was there...

It was a blast!

 

Cool! Glad to hear you and the vehicle made it back in one piece

I don't believe that's accurate. The 'true' number of fatalities isn't made public, but when I frequented between 2002-2007 there was at most an average of 2 or 3 fatalities per year. Mostly bikers, but there was the infamous case of a couple guys in a 360 Modena in 2004 or 2005 I believe. They enthusiastically talked about the upcoming trip on some forum (not F-Chat, I believe), and on one of their first laps took Schwedenkreuz way too fast, spun, flipped, and burned.
Even though it's more crowded now that ever, I have to believe that if the average was more than say 6 fatalities/year there would be too much public pressure to severely restrict public driving. Maybe I'm wrong, just a strong hunch.

No matter how hydrated I tried to stay, by the end of each lap I always had a BAD case of cotton mouth
Man I hope to make it back next year.... been too long!!!

Put up some pics/vids, even parking lot or trackside please, I'm jonsing!

 

BTW Good recap verges.
I know what you mean about crowded public sessions - you're basically guaranteed to have a lap filled with frustration (for being held up by a rookie biker who forgets he has mirrors) or fear (when being passed in a dangerous place by a Stefan Bellof wannabe in a ALMS-spec 911).

My absolute favorite laps were just as the track opened for the day. While other sleep off their hangovers I'd get up at 6 (usually only with a mild hangover), grab a typically muddy German coffee at the gas station and arrive at the lot at least 15 minutes before open. Walk around, wake up, chat with the few other early birds, get in line and you will be rewarded with one of the most magical driving experiences of your life. Keeping it well below 9/10 since the track WILL be wet in many places, and likely foggy, but this just adds to the atmosphere. Sweeping down into Fuchsrohre, sqeaking the tires through Adenau Forst, slinging around Lauda Links, your neck hair will not be laying flat for one second. And you will likely not see more than a few other vehicles for the whole lap.
I cannot recommend morning 'Ring laps enough

Sounds like fairly close calls. I've had a couple of them myself.
I've also 'wasted' large parts of quite a few laps behind slower, oblivious bikers who would not let me past. They'd be slow through EVERY corner, then easily squirt ahead in the straights. Maddening, but it comes with the territory.
As you found out the consequence when you're not very sure that the overtakee knows you're passing, or you are quite sure that you have the speed to do it cleanly whether they know or not, is frightening. Fast 'Ring bikers as a group are as close to a fearless bunch as I've ever met.

 

Based on your experiences, it's hard to believe they raced F-1 cars there!

 

The forum was Ferrari Chat. Sad day.

Dale

PS I will never run this track.