I have found the ultimate octane booster!

I thought octane requirement was a function of compression. With a turbo I would assume you are running low compression. Why would increasing the octane make any difference?

Did you change to higher compression pistons?

 

Oh! lotusing, haven't you learned from the acetone thread, you don't dare reveal something so simple as a mere additive to the primitive mind lest you can endure their mindless rattlings. How dare you reveal or suggest something that they have not heard of. You will be accussed of heresy and burned at the stake and more. Take heart my friend toluene does work along with acetone, but then there probably isn't any room for any free thinking or experimentation.
The next thing you will hear is "show me the data to support your claims" or "show me the numbers to support your claims" It is not enough to say I see real cause and effect! No, you must be a scientist and provide carefully calculated tests with controls and numbers and such. I believe what you say as the truth, but I also believe that by saying these things that I have saved you from the mediocre minds that are poised to use this forum as a stage for their mindless wanderings. Enough said for now, just wait for the onslaught. Toluene does work. TNX

 

I'd run a couple tanks on normal gas before I went in for emissions testing. The toluene may boost the exhaust hydrocarbon levels.

Toluene is a well-known booster
http://www.elektro.com/~audi/audi/toluene.html
http://www.elektro.com/~audi/toluene/

http://www.sportscarforums.com/f13/toluene-my-octane-booster-choice-3257.html

 

That's quite a commentary for someone who has not filled out there profile. I don't think I read any negative comments on this thread.

 

I'm not an engineer, but again I thought octane requirement was a function of compression.

I had a '65 corvette with 11.5 comp. It seemed to really wake up with 108 octane gas. I don't think you can even get that any more.

With stock compression I don't see the benefit of increasing octane. Unless you have made some mods or have poor quality fuel.

Good point about emmissions as well.

 

Could I trouble you a pic of the Lotus? I'm a big fan!! Thanks!

 

Richard, what GARY48 was saing is; a thread was started awhile ago about acetine being a milage increaser. I, along with some others tried it and found it to work. Some on this site were very agressive in thier tone saying that unless there were lab tests and dyno runs ect that the experiences we had were totally null and void. This is of course nonsence because myself, just like you ,have experienced real world results. Good on you for trying something new and sharing it with us here .

Darrell.

 

With a turbo, the higher octane allows more boost (and thus compression)before knocking, so the computer lets the fun go further. However, on a naturally aspirated motor where knocking is not a problem with the recommended gas, there will be no gain unless something else is changed. And there has been evidence on some modern cars that octane boosters damage the cats.

Dave

 

When running a turbo car octane is ultra important. Too low an octane (due to poor quality fuel) will blow an engine in seconds. Cyl pressures are much more important than actual compression ratio. Most modern turbo cars will rapidly retard timing at the first sign of detonation. When this happens in a turbo car you could loose up to 50 or more HP instantly.

Darrell.

 

I'm a chemist by training and based on my experience as a scientist with research capabilities to search the internet for info and evaluate such claims like acetone or toluene as fuel additives providing better operating results than standard gasoline, I am willing to stick my neck out to pass judgement on these claims. The acetone thread while amusing and tedious to read (Ernie's multiweek long experiments are confirmed to disprove the acetone claim as mileage productive in a non-scientific way is valid!)

Lotusing's observation that toluene in about 10% volume to volume additive is beneficial to his turbocharged engine is also valid scientifically. That experiment has been done and documented many years ago by the gasoline producers and SAE engineers. The use of toluene and other aromatic octane enhancers are well known scientifically so his posting is not really a new invention or conspiracy by the gas lobby to bilk the public of better octane gas. The environmentalist lobby is responsible for the phaseout of 93+ octane gas in the western states. It is scientific proof that these aromatics (toluene, benzene, xylene, etc are all good octane boosters i.e., toluene itself has an octane value of about 104) are more contibuting to poorer emissions from cars and gas tanks ventings so higher performance gas is not sold since most cars today are engineered to run on lower octane gas which doesn't contain these pollutants. Turbocharged gas engines and others with higher compression engines all benefit from higher octane because detonation (which limits an engine's longevity) and the protective knock sensors in today's higher performance engines which protect engines from detonation (or knock) is kept in check by the higher limits of higher octane fuel. So logically, higher octane additives like toluene will permit higher compression engines to produce more power before detonation occurs resulting in the knock sensors sending a signal to the engine management computer to dial back the timing and prevent damage to the engine. The only downside reported is incomplete combustion leading to sooty exhausts, destruction of the catalytic converters and more air pollution.

So in addition to violating emissions laws in locality where one chooses to use toluene, there is no scientific evidence to disavow lotusing's findings as posted.

 

Back in the turbo era of F1, teams brewed up exotic fuels to increase power. The British teams rediscovered the fuel that the RAF used in Spitfires, and BMW found the old formula that the Luftaffe had for Messershmitt fuel!

The main ingredient: toluene.

 

Toluene is the real deal. It is added to avgas to raise octane. But don't think if a little is good, more is better. It has a higher density than street gasolines and if you go to far you will have to remap the fuel curve and deal with the downsides mentioned in the caymonlover's post. You can get entry level racing gasolines for about $4 a gallon and mix with super unleaded. That would be my approach. BTW, I hope your toluene info didn't come from here http://patriot.net/~jonroq/Tech/octane2.html
Toluene is not the panacea that site made it out to be.

 

Interesting thread. After reading the acetone thread I was skeptical. It does not sound like it is a good thing for non-turbo cars.

At least not for my 348?

Maybe would benefit '65 corvette as additive to 93 or 92 octane.

 

Yeah what he said. So there

 

Toluene is an old trick. I used it all the time in practice sessions on a TZ250GP bike. We would mix avgas with toluene (20%), which is much cheaper than ELF, but about the same octane rating.

 

I've used it in the past with very good results too. These days I try to build engines that will work on straight pump gas because I've gotten lazier as I've gotten older. I've been meaning to try it in my SC'd 308 and turn the timing up a bit to take advantage of the extra octane....but that too lazy thing keeps chasing after me

 

Sensible post. The acetone reading, while tedious to some, was very entertaining to me. Toluene additive sounds interesting. Anyone else care to try it out???
BT

 

Where's the controversy here ? I thought it was well known that toluene and xylene were "the real deal" as far as proven additives go. Both have high octane numbers and will up the RON of fuel strictly stoichiometrically. I believe toluene is the preferred choice, although I can't remember the exact reason for this. My Subaru Club in Singapore has a couple of guys selling pure toluene for use on our track days (we get PON 98, approx RON 93 fuel here).

OK, having said that, the effect is strictly stoichiometric AFAIK. So 1 gallon of toluene @ 104 to 10 gallons of RON 92 will only give (1/11)*104 + (10/11)*92 = RON 93 fuel. I don't know if that's even enough to register on the butt dyno, this could be purely placebo effect.

 

Are there any problems with seal, gasket or EFI component degradation using toluene? As i recall, there were a few components that acetone caused problems with.

chris

 

There exsists a good quantity of toluene already in gasoline so no problems and in the small amounts of acetone used also no problems.

 

OK, so here is a new question....................When I run diesel #1 in my Prevost coach (as recommended by manufacturer) I see a 20% increase in mileage (6.2 mpg versus 7.5 mpg), a rocket of a motor appears to have been installed, and operating temps are lower by about 5-10 degrees!.....................So if I can only find #1 diesel one out of every 50 fill ups (200 gallons a fillup)...............................Is there an "effective" additive to increase the cetane (diesel octane rating scale, common cetane rating is 40) numbers on the #2diesel I find? I know that there is no diesel F car, but this and the other acetone thread made me wonder, since I put about 100,000 miles on the coach each year, as compared to 3000 on the TR..............Anybody out here have any insight? Kerry

 

Kerry, yes there are different grades of diesel as there are gasoline. There are cetane improver additives at all the automotive stores. You can use 2 ounces of acetone/ten gallons diesel like I did and it made quite a difference. I filled up my dually Dodge turbo Cummins with that mix, drove 120 miles and the guage just barely broke free of the post. Its never done that before and just off throttle performance was much enhanced which is where you do most of your driving. Give it a try and get back on the results.