Below are quotes from Sergio and Technical chief Michael Leiters The electrification is not all about lowering CO2, either, said Marchionne: “The objective of having hybrid and electrics in cars like this is not the traditional objective that most people would have. We’re not trying to make two targets. We’re really trying to improve the performance on the track.” Ferrari technical chief Michael Leiters underlined the intent: “We don’t want to stop production and the small manufacturers’ agreement allows us to continue.” The V12-powered 812 Superfast, revealed at the Geneva motor show last month, is “far under” the current EU6B emissions legislation that will apply for four years. The engine’s performance will be aided by “a 350-bar direct-injection system,” said Leiters. He added: “The EU6C legislation will be a challenge, but we have a solution. After that comes the 2021 Ultra-Low-Emission Vehicle legislation (ULEV), which will be met with the hybrid V12 powertrain.”
Ferrari with the 812 V12 engine reached the barrier of the 800 cv and it isn't easy to improve on that number just with the aspirated engine. It will require a bigger, heavier and more complicated engine. The Laferrari with it's 963 cv has shown how big power figures can be generated using the hybrid technology to complement the aspirated V12 with 800 cv. The F12b has 740 cv, the 812 increased to 800 cv and looking into the future and making a bit of futurology my guess is that the substitute of the 812 will have at least 900 cv with 800 cv generated by a v12 engine and the rest from electric motors.
Every new V12 model produces the same prophecy. The V12 has reached its limit. If I remember correctly, it was quad or dual turbos are now required to increase HP and to keep emissions compliant. And then I post something like Ferrari is the master engine builder and can hit any target they set on the V12. Then we hear about how Ferrari needs to shrink or eliminate the V12 or they cannot meet sales in foreign countries due to engine size. Then I describe a dozen mods to the V12 that can get the competitive HP necessary and noting that the best way is to increase engine size and engine RPM. Ferrari does not listen to me, of course, but they are the masters and yes they did both. And they left a lot on the table. The 6.5L is described as 70% new. You can bet there will be years (through ML 2020 at least) of increasing HP with that F140 block without an additional electric drive motor or forced induction. Keep watching for the F12 TDF replacement.
I personally welcome the new hybrid set up .The next gen batteries will create much more power therefore alleviating the need for a big block V12 we might even end up with a 5 liter engine cranking 11k
As long as it's a Laferrari esque hybrid system I'm open to it, as long as we don't need bloody turbos (they sound horrible on V12s)
When you read interviews with Michael Leiters, he comes across as the ultimate pragmatist. So I would't hold a v12 sacrosanct if rhey can make same/better power with fewer pots + hybrid. Especially if they plan to make more than 10k cars.
Sorry Barry, I strongly disagree. I'm not saying it won't happen in a decade or so when we will all be driving mostly electric,but the V12 IS Ferrari and SM is on record as saying this and that it is the core of the brand.
My comment was more directed at the post-2021 ULEV world. Agree, there's nothing they can/will do drop the V12 in the shorter term. SM's "V12 will always be there" has to be taken in the context of his retirement date, which funnily enough....
Remember when Ferrari hung on in F1 with the last V12 in the field in 1995 and did poorly with the 412T2 - well they abandoned it the next year and join the rest running V10s? Could be a case of history repeating itself at some point with the road cars when V8+hybrid etc becomes the way forward. Can see only Lambo hanging on to V12s for longer.
Ok, guess I am slow. 350-bar direct injection!! That is just 833ish times the fuel pressure I was aiming for in my first carbureted car.
I think what Leiters has said is correct. I deal a lot with all these Euro homologation and emission rules. E6C is now in two parts because the test cycle has been changed, following the VW Diesel-gate scandal. This means E6C will also have a more stringent test, creating effectively a E6D - much tougher. This affects the industry in 2018. The 2021 date is different. It is for a separate agreement regarding emissions for the total fleet. If they are saying hybrid for the V12, it is almost certainly going to happen. The law becomes insanely strict. Basically you get a 90 Euro fine for every gramme over 95g/km per car. If they want to keep the V12 non hybrid they must pay the fine - probably about 150-180 grammes extra - say, about 12-15k Euro extra. Double that to retail. So, the question will be either do consumers want to pay that, or can the hybrid technology be developed and delivered within that price to give a better performing vehicle. Everybody else will be using it so Ferrari need to compete as everyone keeps saying.
Ferrari has used the V10 before in formula 1 cars and despite Michael Schumacher wining several championships with this type of engine it has never been transposed to the GT street model. The reason for that might have to do more with the V12 tradition and sound than with the engine performance itself. The V10’s due to the pistons odd firing type of sequence according with many acoustic specialists produces a sound which is more “growl” and somehow less sophisticated and “inferior” to the one of the Ferrari V12’s engines. Because GT Ferraris are so much about sound and tradition probably we will never see one with a V10 engine in the future.
Although this pressing issue of forthcoming hybrid Ferrari engines could be analysed thoroughly in many different ways, the bottom line in my humble opinion is this: hold on to your 458s, F12s and 812 Superfasts, enjoy them responsibly and maintain them with care. The post purely petrol Ferrari (introduction of hybrids and electrics) and the post sports car Ferrari (SUV) is not a pretty sight for me personally and I won't be even remotely interested. New cars and new philosophies are afoot for a completely different kind of customer and a new brand, which I'd say most of us here proudly don't qualify. Kind regards, Nuno.
I think we are going to see V12 NA + hybrid because this keeps the historic link, gives the sound and performance, and can result in compliance with the regulations. For V8 I am hopeful they will do something that restores the sound. My wild guess is they use the electric side to drive the turbos, in essence, turning them into an electric supercharger. Freeing the exhaust path for a much better sound- though induction noise would be affected. I sincerely hope they don't adopt a V6. It's just not a great engine layout- and Ferrari is a master engine builder. I suppose they could make as good a V6 as possible, but it's not as exciting as a V8 and especially V12. Yes hybrid is coming. So far Ferrari has proven to be very creative and innovative so let's see what they do.
"Ferrari will always have a naturally aspirated V12 in its line-up, according to company boss, Sergio Marchionne. His comments quell concerns that the V12 will be downsized and turbocharged, as with Ferrari’s V8s, or even axed entirely. ‘‘We will always offer a V12,” said Marchionne. “Our head of engine programmes told me it would be absolutely nuts to [put a] turbocharger on the V12, so the answer is no. It [will be] naturally aspirated, with a hybrid [system].” The electrification is not all about lowering CO2, either, said Marchionne: “The objective of having hybrid and electrics in cars like this is not the traditional objective that most people would have. We’re not trying to make two targets. We’re really trying to improve the performance on the track.”
