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Hungary Race **spoiler**

Discussion in 'Other Racing' started by jknight, Aug 6, 2006.

  1. ricksb

    ricksb F1 Veteran
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    Apr 12, 2005
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    No, it was clear that the tail of his car caught the curb and sent him to his left. He was defending position against Fisi, but he did not steer into him.

    We've all seen the video and there was no doubt that his car veered off on him.
     
  2. amenasce

    amenasce Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Watch it again . He was going to spin .
     
  3. DGS

    DGS Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Without the vitriol, but I agree on the racing. "Racing incidents" are just that -- the first law of thermodynamics ("s**t happens").

    Clearly, if MSC had straight-lined the corner because he lost grip, then he should have ceded the position to DLR -- but it's not quite as clear if he was nerfed off the track by contact. And he did get a "penalty" -- in damage to his steering.

    From an engineer's standpoint, banging wheels to try to keep from dropping from eight points to six and losing all eight wasn't a good mathematical choice for the championship.

    But from a racer's standpoint, ... go for it.

    It turned out badly, but I can't fault the decision.

    How many times did Senna hold up the parade in a lame car to finish ahead of where he "should" have been?

    On the other hand, stay tuned: I don't imagine the stewards and FIA are done fiddling yet. Remember last time BAR got to be a front runner? (And the FIA has three weeks with nothing better to do -- not counting hearings for mass dampers, jib wings, etc.) (Anyone notice that the Williams-focused "Inside GP" did an "innovation" special on the old six-wheel cars this week? :p)

    Is there a translation issue between "circuit" and "circus"?
    If there was ever a race to set to calliope music ...
     
  4. QT3141

    QT3141 Formula Junior

    Jul 24, 2006
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    You might've been thinking of the second law (the law of entropy). The first law is conservation of energy. :D
     
  5. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Nah, I think they're done with this race.

    But I sure hope they'd clean up their penalties book and never apply the 2 second penalty in cases like these again.
     
  6. DGS

    DGS Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Not unless they've renumbered them in the last 30 years. Conservation of mass-energy is physics, not thermodynamics.
     
  7. SPEEDCORE

    SPEEDCORE Four Time F1 World Champ

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    Without reading 20pages.

    What a race. The most boring track on the face of the planet becomes interesting due to rain!!! I hope they put the sprinkles on next year as well!!

    No point repeating what everyone has said a dozen times but Congrats to Button winning his 1st race!!! Now he needs to win when the big guns are still on the track.

    Indifferent seeing Kimi go out(i guess till I find out if he is coming to Ferrari) I was happy to see Alonso go out and at the same time unhappy Schumie was taken out. I would of thought going in for tyres 12laps to go would of been a better option then being 4s alap slower. De La Rosa took his time and passed him, but I knew Heinfeld was going to contact b4 it happened.

    Anyway Thank God for the rain :D I didnt have to fall asleep!!!

    As Davidson pointed out in the broadcast(if u got ITV) the punishment is more severe for breaking an engine then driving dangerously....
     
  8. Pagani16

    Pagani16 Formula 3

    Apr 25, 2005
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    Well it was a good race, very different from the norm over the last few races. I would have liked to see Michael and Alonso battle it out head to head but it didn’t happen. I am curious as to how Alonso was so quick (mass damper). But hey that’s racing, Congrats Jenson and now on to Turkey lets all hope for a dry race and a Ferrari victory.
     
  9. racerx

    racerx Guest

    Nov 23, 2003
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    Argue about what you want but there is absolutely no doubt that MS cut the chicane multiple times to hold his position. The first time he was beat and accelerated to TAKE BACK his position. He was beat clealy on the way in.

    Had there been a wall there he would have been out. It wasn't racing at all, it was cheating. If you saw his tires when he was STEERED into the pit garage, yes the steering worked fine then, they were shredded.

    It will be nice when all cars are on the same tires so we can get back to driver ability somewhat.
     
  10. ScuderiaRossa

    ScuderiaRossa Formula 3
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    Glad it was Alonso's driveshaft that failed, and not human error; at least for the tire guy's sake...

    Schumacher is the greatest and the dumbest at the same time. You just don't let opportunities slip away. Why in hell was he being so stubborn about DLR and KL? Let them by! He lost what would have been precious, hard won points in a very difficult race.

    Are there any smart driver's out there?
     
  11. speedy_sam

    speedy_sam F1 Veteran

    Jul 13, 2004
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    Crazy race I must say. Its been a long time since we had a wet race and it made a typically tight and boring circuit come alive with lots of overtaking.

    The Top Ten finishers today (apart from Massa) looked like the typical finishers from 11-20 - no Raikkonen, Schumacher, Alonso, etc. :D If one just joined in, they would have thought Speed TV skipped a page.

    I missed the first 20 minutes but the rest was mayhem. Unfortunately it was too early in the AM for popcorn but it would be been perfectly appropriate given all the drama in today's race. :)

    I thought today was a repeat of Indy 2003 where the Bridgestone vs Michelin runners went forwards and backwards depending on the amount of water on the racetrack. If memory serves me right in 2003, the Bstones were atrocious in semi-dry conditions but came into their own as it wetted up. This race was the complete opposite rom a tire standpoint.

    I think the best drive was by Alonso today - he was the fastest runner for most of the race and particularly the moments when the track was really wet. Michael was splendid too driving hard when clearly the tires were not the best rubber on the track. i think Michael should have changed tires to slicks at his last stop - it could have perhaps kept him ahead of Heidfeld if not De le Rosa. I wonder what caused his retirement?

    Both these guys made their #2s look extremely ordinary today.

    Fantastic drive by Button to win under difficult circumstances. He was fast and mistake free and that's how you win wet races.

    De La Rosa did a great job too - I liked his remark to guys in the command center - "Dont worry guys I know what I am doing" - I guess the nervous nannies behind the pitwall must have been advising him too much on the radio :D

    Great debut by Kubica
     
  12. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

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    While I had unrealistically hoped for a Massa or KR win before the lights, it's good to see 3 new young faces on the podium. Makes it more interesting and gets the other teams spirit!!

    And cheers to Robert Kubica! Thet young man had quite a great showing his first race!
     
  13. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    So what is your point? I don't understand. Are you saying MS voluntarily withdrew from the race to avoid a penalty for having cut the chicane or run the tires to no grooves? Sounds far fetched.
     
  14. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

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    Didn't FA and MS both have driveshaft failures? :confused:
     
  15. richard

    richard Formula 3

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    From the F1 website...
     
  16. Dubai Vol

    Dubai Vol Formula 3

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    My thoughts exactly. This weeked has lowered my opinion of both the WDC contenders.
     
  17. TurboTodd

    TurboTodd Formula 3

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    Great race.. best race of the year for me regardless of where the blue cars ended up..

    For me, I had an extra stage of emotion.. I went from estacy to agony and then back to estacy with MS's retirement combined with JB's win..

    MS cheating? I don't think so. Cheating is a strong word, much like "hate". I don't hate MS. He's made some poor choices on track as of late, but then again, so has Fred. Neither are cheaters. They are fiercely competetive.

    As for Fisi hitting MS, that's a bit far fetched. Great dicing with Michael up until that point, and a brief instant of snap oversteer caught MS no choice but to try and catch the car, which ended up sending his front wing into Fisi's right rear.. Racin' deal, I call it..

    MS and PdLR was a man grasping at what little the car had left to offer, at the verge of tossing aside sporting regs with two trips through the chicane runoff, with the first instance probably resulting in some sort of sanction had it not been for the retirement.

    Someone mentioned MS retiring to avoid the penalty.. I don't have a verdict on that, but if that is the case, I would have gambled for the final two laps, and let the FIA be the determiner of my destiny. If it was mechanical, oh well.

    I'm all about the conspiracy theories without throwing the "cheat" word into the discussion.

    Todd
     
  18. TurboFreak650

    TurboFreak650 Formula 3

    Jul 10, 2004
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    Fantastic race! Talk about being glued to the TV. I was hoping somehow the 4 foot Spainiard would DNF, but then crushed when Michael was out also. I really wish he wouldn't have been so selfish and let DLR and even Heidfield pass, at least he still would have had some precious points.....
     
  19. BMW.SauberF1Team

    BMW.SauberF1Team F1 World Champ

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    Reading about these "hoping FA DNFs" comments throughout the race instantly made me think of karma once MS DNF'd. What goes around comes around. :p I rather see both of them stay in the race to the end dueling it out, which is why I get angry when one or both DNF. ;)
     
  20. TurboFreak650

    TurboFreak650 Formula 3

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    +1000000
     
  21. QT3141

    QT3141 Formula Junior

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  22. Forza355

    Forza355 Formula 3

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    That just about sums up my feelings of him at the moment. Although I think selfishness is more like it. He was given an ideal situation (absolute points gain on Alonso and Renault) and he blew it. Instead of losing a mere two points by letting Pedro pass, which would have still brought him within five points of Alonso in the WDC, he was greedy and cost himself and his team everything. He pretty much made the whole weekend pointless for Ferrari. I'm pretty disappointed by him at the moment.
     
  23. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    BTW: Is anybody ordering a CD from the Video Professor? I always wondered how that fancy ebay site works...:)
     
  24. mkultra

    mkultra Formula 3

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    racerx wrote......
    Argue about what you want but there is absolutely no doubt that MS cut the chicane multiple times to hold his position. The first time he was beat and accelerated to TAKE BACK his position. He was beat clealy on the way in. Had there been a wall there he would have been out. It wasn't racing at all, it was cheating

    from the replay i saw, Schumi's wheel was in front of De La Rosa's entering the turn. yes, he ran the chicane but this is not cheating. it is indeed racing!
     
  25. racerx

    racerx Guest

    Nov 23, 2003
    879

    Tell these guys;

    Stewart leads boos for Schumacher

    MONACO: Michael Schumacher was roundly condemned here yesterday after his pole position performance at the Monaco Grand Prix left many believing he had set out to deliberately wreck rival Fernando Alonso's hopes of overhauling him.

    Three-time world champion Sir Jackie Stewart, a seasoned and respected observer of Formula One, was one of many who said he felt the German's actions were deliberate, unsporting and disappointing.

    “When I saw that, I said 'that wasn't an accident'. I have never seen anything like it before. I have never seen anyone have the presence of mind to do it.”

    Canadian Jacques Villeneuve, who nearly lost the 1997 drivers world championship when he was hit by Schumacher at the decisive season-ending European Grand Prix at Jerez, said he also thought it was a deliberate and cynical move.

    “You cannot win seven world championships and do that. It is unacceptable,” said Villeneuve.

    Colombian driver Juan Pablo Montoya of McLaren said: “Michael screwed everybody up at the end.

    “There was a lot of traffic and everybody was looking out for themselves and nobody else.” – AFP

    Plus Derek Daly said it was clear to him.

    As for today, had it been only "in the heat of the moment" he would have let him by later on when he realized he was wrong. Breaking the rules, unsportsmanlike conduct, etc. to gain advantage is CHEATING. Too much of that being excused or accepted these days. HAD THERE BEEN A WALL MS would have hit it or braked as he was out of position. Its that simple.

    Did he retire to avoid a penalty? I don't know. Steering either works or it doesn't unless these cars have electronic steering(steer by wire), but if its mechanical then it is either broken or not. It apeared to work when the mechanics used it to move it back.

    How closely packed were the other points getting cars?
     

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