how much to rebuild '83 308-GTS QV engine

I hate to burst your bubble... I had my 85 Qv engine rebuilt by Ferrari of Atlanta back in 98, to the tune of $16500... and that was a basic rebuild... they did not do the gearbox or FI or any other rebuilds... lots of labor to do the job!

you may want to talk to Ron Rineke here in Atlanta and send the car to him... he may be able to do it cheaper... 404-435-6760 He's a good honest guy.... if you are mechanically inclined, you probabbly could do it your self, but it would long job!

A total rebuild ... with out any head work would cost you $5-$6k in parts, the rest in labor..., and that is without any machine shop work...

 

You might want to read this thread: http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=122263&highlight=bearing

It starts as a timing belt question but ends up with the guy replacing the timing gear inner and outer bearings. It might give you a feel of what's involved.

Can't help with the price, but it seems that if all they're doing is replacing those bearings (and a major, of course), that the price is a wee bit high.

 

We are located in Bethpage, NY.

 

My opinion is that you SHOULD AVOID going to the F-dealers like the plague....unless of course, money is no object for you and if you really care that the shop serves cappuccino, has a leather couch and a gift shop

First of all, get a second opinion; don't settle what one mechanic told you about the health of your engine....You say that your "engine runs perfect" but yet it needs a $10K major rebuild?? I'm missing something here??

If it turns out that your engine indeed needs some work then look around for an INDEPENDENT F-shop that specializes in Italian exotics...There are plenty of them in the Tri-state area....Going to an F-dealer (or waiting for a call-back from them) is just a big waste of time AND money, IMO....Others of course will disagree with that stmt and so be it....But the fact is we're NOT in the 70's and 80's, when the dealers were the only source of parts and services....Many more people drive F-cars nowadays and many more independent shops exist that can do a quality engine rebuild for less money.

F-chatters in the Tri-state area can provide you with more suggestions as to which shop to call for a second opinion and which ones to avoid...I deal with a German shop in Upstate NY but that's a bit far for you to drive for an estimate. He does not charge $10K for an engine rebuild, no matter how expensive parts are.... Good luck and hopefully you won't need a rebuild after all.

VK

 

Didn't I read somewhere that you could send a 308 engine back to the factory and have it rebuilt for $10K?

 

Hello from Germany,

on the wetsump cars it's possible to replace both bearings with the engine in the car. There are some great home mechanics on this board, who performed this task.
But I don't know of any professional workshop or dealer who is ready to perform this major pain. They all seem to insist on removal of the engine.
Anyway; I have a drysump car and on those engines it seems impossible, because of the second oil pump. I had this work done by an official Ferrari workshop back in 1999, who charged around $ 3000,--. ( some additional minor things 'while we were in there ' ).

Best Regards

Martin

 

out of curiosity, what kind of noise did it make?

john

 

All four drive bearings can be replaced with the engine in the car, and many highly trained mechanics do it that way. Others will say the only way to do it right is to remove the engine and split the crankcase from the transmission.

In your case- is it an outer or inner bearing making noise? I bet it's an outer, and those can certainly be replaced with the engine in the car. It's only a little more work than a timing belt replacement. Should be between 3-5k from the pros to do this job. You will end up with a 15k mile service when it's all said and done, or a 30k service if your valves need adjusting, etc, etc.

Why do you think you might just rebuild it while you are there? If that's your plan, just buy a rebuilt engine from T.Rutlands and exchange it with your engine.

good luck, and please keep us informed of your decision-
jwise

 

Give them a buzz:

Inquires:
770-493-8852

To place Orders :
1-800-638-1444

Fax:
770-934-6857

E-mail:
[email protected]

 

My '83 308QV sounded like a diesel truck one morning after running perfect the night before. this was about 1K miles after a major. The lower timing bearing(s) went. I saw the lower cam wobbling while the car cranked. A local NJ Ferrari shop (not an F dealer) wanted to pull the engine but I was insistant it stay in (so other things wouldn't break) and I got the procedure here off FChat. And I also got the feeling off the threads that this bearing issue wasn't all that uncommon.

I understand 1 engine stud needed to be cut off and the mechanic made sure I understood the aggravation he went through to change the bearings with the engine in the car. They changed the belts & such AGAIN and the whole thing ended up about $7K.

 

hey.... read the 308 parts / cross ref thread. the brake calipers on the 308 are porsche 911 in the front and porsche 914 in the rear with the parking brake lever turned around. the calipers are less than $70.00 from NAPA, Autozone , ect. you may find some other money saving tips in there. i know the indpendant mechanics need to make a living too, but screwing someone is not acceptable. find a good honest mechanic that will talk to you like a human an give him your bisiness for life ! ( or do it yourself!!!)

 

I've done this service several times, and the only reason a stud would need to be cut off is if it broke while it was being removed. Generally it is less work to do the timing service in the car.

As for changing the belts again, that's required as the belts can't be retensioned once they've been run in. Otherwise their life is shortened significantly. The WSM is very clear 'do not retension, not even once'!!!

Ferrari_rich,
It sure sounds like your outer bearing is starting to go, but hasn't totally failed. If that's the case, most likely the inner bearings are good (they run in filtered engine oil & tend to last until an outer bearing self destructs & twists the inner ones way off axis. Just changing the outer bearings is about 2 - 3 hours longer than a standard belt change. You do need a special tool called a Sykes blind bearing puller (search tech Q&A for pix & descr), or an equivalent home-made tool.

 

Screw the dealerships.

Anyone who knows me or has chatted with me lately (Perfusion!!) knows my stance on this.

I would simply take it to a well known local engine/motor place. You will save a FORTUNE. And don't EVER go to a Ferrari dealership again.

A motor is a motor. They need gas, a spark, and the move pistons (or rotors). That's about it. End of story. There is NOTHING magical about a Ferrari motor. At least no more magical than any other when it comes down to nuts and bolts.

Here's a good (recent) example. My friend just bought a Daytona a few months ago. He bought, and had it running pretty well. Then, the motor blew up. Literally seized up and sprayed oil ALL over the engine compartment. Mind you these cars are older and even harder to get parts for than yours. So he takes it to the local shop (after the dealerships were talking $30k+ to fix it!!!) and had it done for $12k. And then thing looks MINT. They documented the job step for step too. He sent me pics. Looks unreal. Nicely cleaned too. And, I wouldn't doubt is done to HIGHER standards than the dealership would have done. And they used ALL Ferrari parts. Replaced all that needed replacing too like fuel pumps, etc.

Dealerships are rubbish. And my cars will NEVER be in one again. That INCLUDES consignment.

 

Your '81 motor is basically identical to my '77, except you have CIS and I have carbs. Except for having the heads done on my other motor, and some other things, I have just about everything needed to put it back together. Here is where I am so far:

check and polish crankshaft ............................................. $85

all gaskets and seals for both engine and gearbox ..............$1300

new engine bearings ......................................................$400

new Wiseco pistons, 10.4:1 compression, w/rings/pins/clips ..$900

had liners bored to 82mm ............................................... $300

I could be off a bit on some of those prices, its off the top of my head. I still need to rebush the small rod ends, pick up a couple syncro rings, a clutch, and as I said, the heads done. I still have not decided what valves to run, springs, etc. But I am planning on at least $2000 for them. If I come out better, lucky me. So bugeting $5000 for parts and some machine work is not unrealistic. The rest is labor. If thats worth $10K plus those parts to have someone else do it, go for it. I figure a guy can mess up a little and still come out okay doing it themselves. Sure can buy a lot of nice tools for $10K. Like a hoist, or big compressor, maybe a big red tool box, or a nice set of snap on tools.....maybe another beater for parts??? Then you have the while your in there stuff. Hoses, polishing, painting, and detailing the engine bay, maybe ceramic coating the headers, overhauling the starter and alternator, maybe different cams, different induction, blah blah blah.

Or you could just listen to these guys and fix your motor in the car, its probably just an outer bearing, you can do it yourself, and youll be driving your car with a big fat wallet

 

My 79 308 suffered the same a few years ago, so after researching the issue I bought the proper tool to remove the weird nuts and did it all myself. Yes, it is a PITA, but is easily do-able with the engine in the car, in just a few hours. The big expense was the tool-around $300.00 IIRC. GT Car Parts in Phoenix has them, as well as some others. It is alot cheaper than some of the options mentioned here, and you get to spend some quality time with your mistress. It requires removal of the right rear wheel, fender liner, cam belt guards and belts, and maybe a couple other small items...take no shortcuts and you can duplicate the results of the $3-$5-$7thousand ripoffs yourself.

 

Hello from Germany,

does anyone know, whether the whole procedure also works on the drysump cars ? I believe not, because of the second oil pump, which makes things a lot more complicated than just removing the pick up tube.

when I had this problem 7 years ago I removed the oil pan ( just a plain cover on the drysump engine ), looked..... and gave up.

Best Regards

Martin

 

Last winter I rebuilt my QV engine and trans. With doing the majority of the work myself and carefully shopping for parts, the final cost was $13K. By the way, if you have a bad engine and a good car, I would be interested in the car - mine ate the wall at Watkins Glen. So right now I have a great engine/trans with a bent body.

 

Martin I have done a few drysump cars and replacement of the outer bearings (all that is needed in 90% of the cases) the process will be exactly the same as any early V8. I do not think however you will be able to do the inners. I think the chain drive for the scavange pump will make it impossible.

 

that's exactly what I thought back then when looking what's behind the oil pan ... and what was confirmed by the official workshop..... But who knows. Therefore thanks for this additional confirmation.

Best Regards from Germany

Martin

 

I also rebuilt last year with new H/C pistons,rings bearings 1 new camshaft,heads with stainless valves and polish,2nd gear synchro,oil pump gears,I also replaced the timing gear pulleys with lightweight alluminium ones and the rest that goes with it including all the machining work and my total came to around the $12K mark as well.I did alot of the dissasembling and reassembling at my Mecanics workshop.He is a Ferrari specialist so we soret of did it together.I had to do all the dirty jobs though(I was basically his apprentice) but besides it taking so long(almost a year)it was a great learning experience and I got to clean up the engine bay and the engine is all clean

 

Of course those guys at the dealer are going to tell you the engine HAS to come out for those bearings to be replaced. I hate to say it, but I also dislike going to dealers. They try to hose you. One of the big reasons I refuse to buy a more modern Ferrari is because a lot of the servicing has to be done at the dealer, or the part may be a dealer only part. IMHO, the 308's are easy to work on. Parts a readily available, cheap, and their is a huge support base. You do not have to remove the engine to get the bearings you speak of out. It makes it easier, but not necessary. All you need are a couple special tools and a bit of patience. easy.


good luck,
john