How many F430's sold in the US question... Again | FerrariChat
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How many F430's sold in the US question... Again

Discussion in '360/430' started by m81b, Sep 20, 2023.

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  1. m81b

    m81b Karting

    Oct 20, 2007
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    Erik
    #1 m81b, Sep 20, 2023
    Hi Folks,

    I know this question has come up several times in the past, and I've searched every thread I can- however I have an immediate need to try find an answer. I will be registering a 2005 F430 Spider in the State of Minnesota- and if a car is 10 years or older AND less than 500 engine type or body were sold in or exported to the United States, I don't have to pay sales tax! Just a $150 fee.

    I do know from the 2005 Fiat SPA Financial Report that a total of 1580 cars were sold in the US market.

    Thanks!
     
  2. greyboxer

    greyboxer F1 World Champ

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    #2 greyboxer, Sep 20, 2023
    In 2020 Terry posted '5504 F430s and variants in the US' so it would appear the 430 does not qualify
     
  3. m81b

    m81b Karting

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    Minnesota
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    #3 m81b, Sep 21, 2023
    I was not clear- sorry. 500 per model year, not in total. If there was fewer than 500 F430 Spiders exported to the US for 2005, it would be considered a Collector car, and therefore not subject to sales tax in Minnesota under that statute.
     
  4. greyboxer

    greyboxer F1 World Champ

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    #4 greyboxer, Sep 21, 2023
  5. mchas

    mchas F1 Veteran
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    #5 mchas, Sep 21, 2023
    Is the state really expecting you to figure out the answer? If you can’t find an accurate number how can they? Just sayin..
     
    Kerwind likes this.
  6. WashingtonFerrari61

    WashingtonFerrari61 Formula Junior

    Jun 26, 2022
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    #6 WashingtonFerrari61, Sep 21, 2023
    I had no idea more F430’s are roaming around the USA than 360’s.
     
  7. GogglesPisano

    GogglesPisano F1 Rookie
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    #7 GogglesPisano, Sep 21, 2023
    I was thinking this as well. Even if someone here said it was less than 500. That means nothing.
     
  8. JWeiss

    JWeiss F1 World Champ
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    #8 JWeiss, Sep 21, 2023
    E60 M5 and GogglesPisano like this.
  9. m81b

    m81b Karting

    Oct 20, 2007
    82
    Minnesota
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    Erik
    #9 m81b, Sep 21, 2023
    The Statute language says "The owner shall provide a statement of the manufacturer or importer regarding the number of vehicles manufactured or imported during the model year". I've got a pretty good relationship with the local dealer- and they don't have access to it. I thought it might be something obtainable through the Classiche program... but apparently not. Production by model is often in the financial documents of a manufacturer for any given year. I could only find the total count of 1580 cars (all models combined) for the US Market. There were at least 6 models - 360 Spider, 575M, Superamerica, 612, 430, 430 Spider in that 1580 number for 2005.

    Appreciate the discussion on this :)
     
  10. WillskiGT

    WillskiGT Formula Junior

    Aug 12, 2017
    443
    #10 WillskiGT, Sep 21, 2023
    US production for all F430 including Scud, 16M - don't have spider vs. berlinetta breakdown:

    2005 - 1093
    2006 - 1392
    2007 - 1382
    2008 - 1032
    2009 - 605

    Total: 5504

    Spiders globally are slightly more common, so assuming that trend holds here, it's likely to be close in 2005 but probably still not <500.
     
  11. LorenzoR

    LorenzoR F1 Rookie
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    #11 LorenzoR, Sep 21, 2023
    Interesting. I thought there would be a lot more.
     
  12. m81b

    m81b Karting

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    #12 m81b, Sep 21, 2023
    The 1093 F430 number for 2005 came from an old post and was listed as a best guess. What I know for certain is the Fiat published total production for the US of 1580 cars. The Spider was more popular over the 430 run, but wasn't released until March 2005. There was also a color breakdown in an old Ferrari Market Letter (F430 numbers- but didn't include all varients). The numbers I've found don't add up to 1580, and could also be someone else's best guess. I'm not sure if there were any other models produced for 2005- were there?

    360 Spider - 29
    575M - 65
    Superamerica - 170
    612 Scaglietti - 228
    F430 - 568
    F430 Spider - 426
     
  13. greyboxer

    greyboxer F1 World Champ

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    #13 greyboxer, Sep 21, 2023
    You could be looking at at least 3 different ways of counting - production in Italy in 2005 which is different to deliveries in USA in 2005 and in turn would be different to model year 2005 deliveries
     
  14. m81b

    m81b Karting

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    #14 m81b, Sep 21, 2023
    Right- and why I thought to check with people smarter than me here.
     
  15. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #15 tazandjan, Sep 21, 2023
    The only way you are going to get an answer that Minnesota will accept is if you get it in writing from FNA or Maranello.
     
  16. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    #16 vrsurgeon, Sep 21, 2023
    Ah Minnesota. I thank the heavens every day I moved back to South Carolina last June. FYI my annual registration for my 360 was $11.30.
     
  17. m81b

    m81b Karting

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    #17 m81b, Sep 22, 2023
    That would be nice. I don't think anything will be made available other than their financial statement. These numbers do actually get released for entities like the NHTSA, but not publicly. Sometimes we get a peak inside those, if captured at the time of release.

    Maybe a different question to at least quantify if these counts are in the ballpark- what about the other Ferrari models? Can those numbers be validated as best we can? If those are close, then I would hope the others would be reasonably close.
     
  18. m81b

    m81b Karting

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    #18 m81b, Sep 22, 2023
    Here is that list again- any missing models and do the production numbers for everything outside of the 430 correlate to known information for those?

    2005 Ferrari production for US Market

    360 Spider - 29
    575M - 65
    Superamerica - 170
    612 Scaglietti - 228
    F430 - 568
    F430 Spider - 426
     
  19. WillskiGT

    WillskiGT Formula Junior

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    #19 WillskiGT, Sep 22, 2023
    Not to be an ass, but does it really matter? No one at the factory / FNA is going to verify those numbers.

    You're either going to have to create a document that says production was under 500 units for 2005 or pay the tax. Minnesota isn't going to accept random conjecture from a Ferrari forum for their record keeping purposes.
     
  20. Mercedes_Benz

    Mercedes_Benz Formula Junior
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    #20 Mercedes_Benz, Sep 23, 2023
    With Ferrari's reputation for making more limited production cars than they state, not sure they would ever even tell us how many lowly 430's were made.:D
     
  21. colorfull

    colorfull Formula 3
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    #21 colorfull, Sep 28, 2023
    I had to do something similar in NJ to get collector status and sent in a post from FCHAT and they accepted it
     
  22. GogglesPisano

    GogglesPisano F1 Rookie
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    #22 GogglesPisano, Sep 28, 2023
    So what you're saying is the OP needs to crate another identical thread and we all chime in with absolute certainty that definitely for sure without a doubt that less than 500 examples were made and we all saw official Ferrari documents to back that up, but good luck finding those now :D
     
    efg2014 likes this.
  23. colorfull

    colorfull Formula 3
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    #23 colorfull, Sep 28, 2023
    Exactly! ;)

    But seriously on the DMV it said it needed a testimonial from Ferrari or an official club and I hoped an FCHAT post would pass and it did

    It was one that looked very convincing
     
  24. Mercedes_Benz

    Mercedes_Benz Formula Junior
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    #24 Mercedes_Benz, Sep 28, 2023
    What does collector car status even mean with the DMV and why do you need or want it?
     
  25. LorenzoR

    LorenzoR F1 Rookie
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    #25 LorenzoR, Sep 28, 2023
    Benz,,Most likely saves money on registration and insurance....We can't do it in florida because looks like their at 30 years for collector status...You can move to Jersey if u want...I'm not lol
     
    Mercedes_Benz likes this.
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