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How many 400GT in existence?

Discussion in '365 GT4 2+2/400/412' started by alastairhouston, Nov 25, 2012.

  1. Ramboy

    Ramboy Formula Junior

    Aug 6, 2009
    721
    Stockholm
    Full Name:
    David Ramm
    Would be interested to know more about the 365 GT4. Photos, serial number etc.

    David
     
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  3. Ramboy

    Ramboy Formula Junior

    Aug 6, 2009
    721
    Stockholm
    Full Name:
    David Ramm
    It's not the last RHD 400 GT - though it is one of the last. 27799 was a 400 GT last seen in Jersey. There may have been up to four further RHD GTs produced during 1979/80 as it seems that some carburettor cars were still being made after the first RHD injected car (28073, auto) was produced.

    I posted a photo of 27741 from when I last saw it in the 90s. Very attractive colour.

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/365-gt4-2-2-400-412/445145-365-400-412-pics-90s.html

    David
     
  4. Ashman

    Ashman Two Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Sep 5, 2002
    28,585
    MA
    Full Name:
    John
    Cavallino says the last 400 was 28261 while the 412 book says the last 400 was 29051.

    Note that both numbers are later than the first 400i numbers of 27075 (FML) or 27978 (Cavallino and obviously a misprint with the even s/n).
     
  5. galbert

    galbert Formula Junior

    Mar 14, 2012
    352
    sud ouest france
    Full Name:
    Galbert Christopher
    bonjour les amis
    ma Ferrari 400 carburateur en boite automatique avec le numéro 27073
    sortie de chaine de fabrication en fin janvier 1979
     
  6. Piston.Broke

    Piston.Broke Rookie

    Mar 5, 2009
    49
    Australia
    Full Name:
    Rick
    Hi David,

    I am in Australia and look after 400iA 28341. It is a very early RHD 400iA. I was interested in your comment that the first FI RHD car was 28073. My car has a very low engine number (000007). Noting the very low number of RHD cars produced it is difficult to understand the chassis numbering system. My car was delivered new to UK in Aug 79 (And I have a copy of a press release from Ferrari describing the release of the new model (400i) dated Sep 79. I would be interested in your source for the information on the first RHD FI produced.

    Thanks for the info/input.

    Regards,

    Piston.Broke
     
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  8. Ramboy

    Ramboy Formula Junior

    Aug 6, 2009
    721
    Stockholm
    Full Name:
    David Ramm
    Hi Piston.Broke

    You do indeed have a very early RHD 400i - in fact the first one registered (on 17 August 1979), as 28073 was not registered until 23 August 1979. Yours is the second RHD 400i by serial number. 28343 is the third, registered on 13 September 1979. My information ultimately comes from Maranello Concessionaires files (the worldwide distributor of RHD Ferraris at the time, except to the South African market).
    28073 has been turned into a replica by the way, so yours is certainly the oldest surviving 400i RHD.
    I will send you a PM with the info I have on your car.
    Regards

    David
     
  9. Piston.Broke

    Piston.Broke Rookie

    Mar 5, 2009
    49
    Australia
    Full Name:
    Rick
    Thanks for the info David.

    WOW !!!!

    I knew the car was very early in production but the info you have provided is excellent and confirms my original thoughts. I would love to know more history of the car.

    I enjoy the 400i and find it interesting from a historic perspective (as I understand it) the 400i was also the first Ferrari road production car with Fuel Injection.

    Thanks again for the info.

    Warm regards.

    Piston.Broke
     
  10. torquespeak

    torquespeak Formula Junior

    Dec 24, 2010
    617
    UK
    Full Name:
    Ed
    #158 torquespeak, May 7, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 23, 2015
    Better late than never...

    Let's be clear on one thing first: I CANNOT say 100% that ALL of these are definitely RHD manual 400GTs.

    Most are confirmed, but others are cars that I *believe* are RHD manual based on various historical sources. However, a few might be proved to be Automatics in due course - so please send me corrections/amendments if you know any are inaccurate!

    I would also say that there are likely to be about a dozen cars missing from this list. I believe total factory production of 400GT RHD was 44 cars.

    At least three UK cars currently taxed, including: 23371, 24439 and 24741

    At least seven UK cars currently on SORN (some may be excellent; others may be projects!), including: 21131, 21509, 21557, 22499, 23588, 23667, 26265 and 27703

    I'm not sure if 27741 is being re-registered by DVLA on a different plate, but I'm sure Justin can confirm if it is currently taxed etc.

    I have previous owners' names for the majority of these 400GTs, so please PM or email me if you are interested in more details.


    :::::::::: CARS IN THE UK (known - or believed to be - all RHD manual; may include cars that have since been exported) ::::::::::


    20527 - Blue/Tan; regs inc 140 MPH and URP 242R (or URP 342R?)
    ...
    20659 - Silver/tbc; regs inc SPK 392R; first reg 6 January 1977 (not taxed in UK since 1984... Exported? Destroyed? Hiding in a barn?)
    ...
    21131 - Azzurro/Crema&Black; regs inc SJU 658R (SORN); first reg 12 May 1977; Brooks auction 15 Oct 1996 (not sold) and 16 Oct 1997 (not sold)
    ...
    21339 - tbc/tbc; regs inc TFH 954R; date first reg unknown
    ...
    21509 - Argento/tbc; regs inc TJF 630R (SORN); first reg 21 June 1977
    ...
    21557 - Red/Black; regs inc WSV 215 (SORN); first reg 1 August 1977; Brooks auction 2 Dec 1994 (sold) and Sothebys auction 29 Sep 1997 (sold)
    ...
    22499 - Blue/tbc; regs inc YGY 127S (SORN); first reg 1 January 1978; offered by BCA on 21 May 2001 (not sold)
    ...
    23371 - Red/tbc; regs inc 3 BYH (Taxed!); first reg 1 May 1985 (DVLA record - but incorrect)
    ...
    23588 - Black/tbc; regs inc VOV 834S (SORN); first reg 18 April 1978
    ...
    23667 - Dark blue/Cream; regs inc XPE 580S (SORN) and 1 BGE; first reg 21 February 1978
    ...
    24439 - Pino Verde/tbc; regs inc WPJ 929S (Taxed!); first reg 30 June 1978
    ...
    24605 - tbc/tbc; regs inc XPB 491S and XRY 99
    ...
    24703 - Blu Ribot/Tan; regs inc BRD 761T and 2 UN; Coys auction 20 Oct 1994 (sold)
    ...
    24741 - Silver/Beige&Black (originally Blu Chiaro?); regs inc HLE 920T (Taxed!); first reg 1 August 1978
    ...
    25281 - Blue/Beige; regs inc 3 YKX; delivered new to Richard Prince Smith of Hooper coachbuilders fame with optional sunroof; H&H auction July 1997 (sold) and 9 Jun 1999 (sold)
    ...
    25425 - Blue/Cream; regs inc YUL 2T (still on this plate?); first reg 26 January 1979; Brooks auction 14 Apr 1999 (sold)
    ...
    25711 - Red/Black&Red?; regs inc SXF 593; was owned by John Bonham of Led Zeppelin; H&H auction 16 Feb 2000 (sold) and 29 May 2002 (sold)
    ...
    26265 - Silver/Red; regs inc WOW 637T (SORN) and PAR 2; first reg 19 June 1979 (car is still around - I've only seen photos, but looks good)
    ...
    26395 - Brown?/tbc
    ...
    27129 - Oro Chiaro?/tbc; regs inc SIJ 400; first reg 1 May 1979 (not taxed in UK since 1996... Exported? Destroyed? Hiding in a barn?)
    ...
    27305 - Blue/tbc; regs inc BPJ 480T; first reg 21 May 1979 (not taxed in UK since 1995... Exported? Destroyed? Hiding in a barn?)
    ...
    27703 - Dark blue/Tan&Black; regs inc DEB 200V (SORN); first reg 1 September 1983 (DVLA record - but incorrect)
    ...
    27741 - Rosso Nearco/Beige&Red (was this originally Prugna?); regs inc BYK 66T and 834 JBM (was previously in France on 1422-XE-50); first reg 19 June 1979
    ...
    27799 - tbc/tbc; known to have been (or still be) on Jersey
    ...


    :::::::::: CARS IN AUSTRALIA (known - or believed to be - all RHD manual) ::::::::::

    21055 - Blu Chiaro/Black; regs inc 400GT (Queensland rego); original AUS delivery car?
    ...
    21185 - Blue/tbc; regs inc TEN 10 (when in UK) and EAL433 (or is that EOL433?); original UK delivery car
    ...
    21341 - Canna de Fucile (being changed, Wayne?) but originally Black/Black; regs inc RUW 880R; first reg 26 May 1977; featured in Auto Italia magazine November 1999, BCA auction 7 Apr 2003 (not sold)
    ...
    22417 - Blue/tbc; regs inc SYO 323S (when in UK); first reg 3 November 1977
    ...
    22547 - Blue/tbc; regs inc GTB12 and 989KMU and 330 AFZ; original AUS delivery car?
    ...
    22569 - Blu/Blu Scuro&Light blue (is that correct, Wayne?); regs inc ADD 501S (when in UK); first reg 13 March 1978; original UK delivery car
    ...
    24539 - tbc/tbc; original AUS delivery car?
    ...
    27445 - Red/tbc; regs inc SA5856P; original AUS delivery car?
    ...
    27535 - Blu Sera/tbc (what colour is the hide, Wayne?); regs inc WOW 57T and 77 SPB (when in UK); first reg 23 April 1979; original UK delivery car - owned new by Shaun Bealey of Maranello Concessionaires
    ...
     
  11. Ramboy

    Ramboy Formula Junior

    Aug 6, 2009
    721
    Stockholm
    Full Name:
    David Ramm
    #159 Ramboy, May 8, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 23, 2015
    Wow, you've done a lot of work torquespeak.

    Here are some comments and corrections.

    Autos are often misrepresented as manuals in auction catalogues, Ferrari owners' club records etc. Sometimes even the other way around.

    20527 - should be UPP342R
    20659 -an auto. The bodyshell was recently for sale in Australia.
    21339 - an auto.
    21557 - an auto.
    23371 - an auto
    23588 should be 23855 (an auto). Motor Magazine road test car I Believe. Do you have the current registration number?
    24605 - an auto
    24703 - I understand it has been written off
    24741 - saw it last week! I have a photo from its blue chiaro days
    25281 - an auto
    25711 - an auto - featured in the Clarkson Ferrari book
    26395 - may or may not be RHD, could also be an auto - I am not sure on this one
    27129 - an auto
    27703 - was originally in Jersey, that's why the DVLA records appear incorrect
    27741 - rosso nearco was the original colour

    Australia
    21055 - registration 400OGT
    21341 - as I've mentioned to Wayne, in fact originally celeste gainsborough with blue interior
    22417 - an auto
    22547 - an auto, yes an Australia delivered car
    24539 - an auto, UK delivered
    27445 - I think you mean 27453 (an auto)

    I am not sure either how many RHD 400GTs were produced. It was at least 23, but almost certainly fewer than 30. It is possible that some were sold new to the South African market (I know for a fact that a number of 400is were sold there).
    It is also not clear if some RHD 400 GTs were produced after the last RHD auto (28261).
     
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  13. torquespeak

    torquespeak Formula Junior

    Dec 24, 2010
    617
    UK
    Full Name:
    Ed
    Super stuff, thanks David. I've tracked down three or four auction catalogues for some of the cars listed as I wanted to check interior photos (for the reason you list above).

    From your comments, can I take it that you've already done this? Or have you actually seen the cars that you've noted as Autos?

    There are another 12 cars I have listed that have mixed records of being called both Manual and Auto, but didn't bother listing them as they were all 'skewed' towards being Autos in my mind. :)
     
  14. torquespeak

    torquespeak Formula Junior

    Dec 24, 2010
    617
    UK
    Full Name:
    Ed
    Right you are. Just done vehicle check and it does actually record it as an Auto (most I find are recorded as 'Transmission unknown').

    Current reg plate for 23855 is VOV834S. 'SORN' denotes that someone has applied for an off-road notification within the last year, so clearly it is still around to some degree. Previous plates:

    NJS350 (removed May 1996)
    VOV834S (removed September 1995)
    609DEV (removed June 1995)
    FG1 (removed January 1993)
     
  15. Ramboy

    Ramboy Formula Junior

    Aug 6, 2009
    721
    Stockholm
    Full Name:
    David Ramm
    #162 Ramboy, May 9, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I have used various sources which should be reliable. I also have pictures of most, but not all, RHD 400s.

    I thought I'd look into the matter a bit more, and came across these production statistics from Ferrari Story 2, published in the late 80s.
    There is no split of carb versus injected, unfortunately, but you can see the number of RHD manual carb cars is in the range of 17-32, given 1979 was the changover year. The first injected cars were manufactured in the second quarter of 1979, supporting my notion that there are about 23 carb cars.
    Interesting to see statistics of the Series 2 injected cars (that's why they split 1982 production) - only 9 RHD manuals (and at least one owner on this forum).

    David
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  16. bardfast

    bardfast Rookie

    Jan 19, 2019
    2
    Full Name:
    Brett Langevad
    Not familiar with how 'chat rooms' work as never used one. Hope this post goes to where it should! Came across this website by chance and the list of 400GT manual in existence to settle argument on how many 400 carb manuals were ever imported into UK. I am not a lot wiser! My wife owns 400GT manual #23667 XPE 580S. I have fallen from the path after I sold my 246 GTS and bought a Viper RT10 (still owned and loved) and a series of Bentley's - now own an Azure. XPE 580S was originally owned by Maranello and was the directors (Sean Bealey) personal car reg # 77SPB. I gather briefly used as a demonstrator. Sold to Brian Giddy who sold it to us in 1981. In 1986 it was totally rebuilt (mechanics and body) to concourse standard by Maranello Concessionaires. Won its class at FOC about 1987 and was show champion in about 1988 at Brocket Hall. Then used regularly for touring and track days. Put back in store in 2004 and on SORN since. Taken out of storage in 2018 still in good condition but with flat tyres and paint gel coat paint crazed; apparently due age. :( It has not seen any sun for a while! Now in the process of being put back on the road. Happily no longer needs MOT and Road Tax :) Will have complete new re-spray and all mechanicals totally serviced to bring back to good roadworthy and concourse standard by end of 2019. May start doing a few shows again. Hope this is helpful. Have photos after original restoration, on the track, in storage and after 'release' from the lock up. Still looking great!
     
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  17. Ramboy

    Ramboy Formula Junior

    Aug 6, 2009
    721
    Stockholm
    Full Name:
    David Ramm
    Dear Brett,
    Thank you for your post and welcome to Fchat. I don't think you will find anyone else on this forum who has owned their 400 as long as your wife! I remember seeing it in the concours at Brocket Hall in 1989. Just to add to the historical records you mention, under Brian Giddy's ownership it was registered 1 BGE. Great that you are planning to bring it back to its splendour again.

    I have continued my research since the last post in this thread in 2015 and can state that of the 23 400GT manual RHD known to have been produced, 19 are known to still exist. 12 are in the UK, 5 in Australia, 1 in Germany and 1 in Japan. There has been no trace of the other four for well over 20 years.

    If you have a chance to post some photos I'm sure it will be appreciated by the forum members.

    Regards David
     
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  18. bardfast

    bardfast Rookie

    Jan 19, 2019
    2
    Full Name:
    Brett Langevad
    Hi David,
    Thanks for those kind words. Yes we bought the car from Brian Giddy of Giddy & Giddy estate agents. Long gone; the estate agent that is! He told me his special plate that he wanted to retain stood for Brian Giddy Extrovert!
    I have been in correspondence with Mike Wheeler who sold my 246GTS WLY 983M. He tells me that 28 manual carburettor cars were officially imported and ten survive. Six are SORNE'd and 4 are taxed. I believe the source is the official Ferrari archivist who bought all the records when Maranello was sold. He owns the original plate of my wife's car - 77 SPB. I have purchased the full history of the car from him; but not the plate. We are happy to retain the plate we have had for some 35 years. Car is looking pretty good after nearly 20 years in store and I will try and figure out how to post a few when I have a moment. After nearly 20 years in store the garage connected a clean container of fuel, new battery and turned her over for a while to lubricate the bores etc. She started immediately on ignition being switched on. Garage were amazed and asked me to come down without telling me all this. They fired her up when my back was turned. - started immediately and sounded glorious. All thoughts of her sale evaporated!
     
  19. Ewan

    Ewan Karting

    Jul 5, 2015
    142
    Dorset, UK
    Great to hear that your car is being brought back to life. My car was also in storage for nearly 20 years and is now going through a similar restoration. Engine is work is underway (at Keys Motorsport at the Silverstone circuit), and then she's off for a full strip and repaint. Should be finished by mid/late summer (all being well!). Maybe we can try and gather together a few UK 400's at a summer event (next year, if not this). Anyway, best wishes with the restoration work and fingers crossed it all goes smoothly.

    For the record, mine is a 1979 400i (chassis 29351) but an auto, as my wife only has a licence to drive auto's.
     
  20. Ramboy

    Ramboy Formula Junior

    Aug 6, 2009
    721
    Stockholm
    Full Name:
    David Ramm
    Hi Brett,
    Look forward to seeing the car back in action. I actually have some photos of 23667 from a track day possibly late 1990s which I will post when I have a chance to scan them.
    I agree that Mike Wheeler is very knowledgeable about the UK Ferrari scene and very helpful, as is Tony Willis of the Maranello Archive.
    The discrepancy between the Maranello archive records in respect of number of 400 GTs imported compared to my numbers is because certain of the first 400i 5 speeds brought into the UK in 1979 were mistakenly classified as GTs in the order docs. So I'm pretty sure that 23 RHD 400 GTs were produced, and not 28. It is however possible that only 22 of the 23 were ever sent to the UK, as one has an early history in Hong Kong.
    It is never straight forward in terms of production numbers and Ferraris...
    Of the 12 that definitely still exist and are still in the UK, I did a check today and 3 are taxed, 7 are on SORN and 2 are untaxed (though not for long). As mentioned before, 7 are known to have been exported (and still exist). Of the remaining 4, three have a trace in the 1990s so I do still think that I will track more down - one day one or more will surface from long-term storage.
    So the survival rate is perhaps surprisingly high. It is considerably lower in respect of autos which were more commonplace of course. But that's another story.
    Regards David
     
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  21. 365GT4 2+2

    365GT4 2+2 Karting

    Jan 1, 2016
    52
    Essex, England
    Full Name:
    Justin R
    Sorry to take this off topic a bit but what are the numbers for RHD 365GT4 2+2's in the UK at the moment ?
     
  22. Ramboy

    Ramboy Formula Junior

    Aug 6, 2009
    721
    Stockholm
    Full Name:
    David Ramm
    No problem, as of today there are 9 taxed, 14 on SORN and 4 unlicensed that I believe still exist and are in the UK. Plus 1 in Ireland. I have not included in these numbers those have been made into recreations/replicas eg Daytona Spiders. Many have been exported. You will also find RHD 365 GT4s in Austria, Australia, Denmark, France, Germany, Hong Kong, Indonesia, Japan, New Zealand, Spain and South Africa.
     
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