How Little Oil Is Too Little | FerrariChat

How Little Oil Is Too Little

Discussion in '365 GT4 2+2/400/412' started by billg, Feb 18, 2007.

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  1. billg

    billg Formula Junior

    Jun 7, 2006
    307
    New Orleans
    Full Name:
    Bill Grady
    Blew upper oil cooler hose a month ago, maybe more. Upper and lower hoses shipped in from England, had to be modified to fit here. Big bill. Today, following visit to my brother, perhaps 20 miles from my house, he notices oil pool under car outside his house. Appears lower hose leaking. Tempting fate and trusting in the oil pressure gauge, I try to make it home. Gauge shows pressure falling as I go down the interstate, but finally I get to the point that when I accellerate the gauge jerks downward then rises slightly, nowhere near the empty level but to a bit below the final-quarter level. So I stop and have the car towed. Amazing there's a tow operator actually working during one of the big Mardi Gras days,but anyway it's parked outside the mechanic's shop now. Question is, should I have simply left it at my brother's, or trusted a constant but not gushing leak would stay constant and that I could monitor the gauge until it got to a worrisome point. Also, the car was running fine when I cut the engine finally, so could I have done some major damage?
     
  2. Crawler

    Crawler F1 Veteran

    Jul 2, 2006
    5,018
    I would say that there's a decent chance that you might be okay. You mention the OP gauge, but what was the dipstick showing when you finally switched off? I was told a long time ago that one should not rely on the OP gauge when it comes to low oil level.

    Myself, I would have bought a couple of quarts of cheap oil at the gas station and stopped twice along the way to add some.

    Anyhow, good luck. As I said, you might be okay...
     
  3. billg

    billg Formula Junior

    Jun 7, 2006
    307
    New Orleans
    Full Name:
    Bill Grady
    I didn't look at the dipstick. What was the point? When the hose blew the first time, I used the gauge reading to make it to the mechanic's shop. Let's say the gauge is reading one-eighth, is that enough to protect the engine? It's interesting, though, now that I've got this 12 cylinder car in the shop, and the mechanic is probably on vacation all week, and its fate is in the balance, it makes me think about the kind of car I really want. I'm bombing around in this huge saloon, good only for the straightaway, when I guess I could stretch and buy a 348 or 355 (though even I would say that given my utter ignorance of mechanicals I don't deserve to own one), and I wonder which is really better.
     
  4. noonblueapples

    noonblueapples Karting

    Dec 19, 2006
    196
    Mid Coast Maine
    Full Name:
    Peter Parker
    The danger of this situation as I found out in an alfa 164 is the drop in presure usually means something bad has already happened, and when something carastrophic happens it is not linear with the presure guage
     
  5. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner Professional Ferrari Technician

    Dec 29, 2006
    18,214
    Twin Cities
    Full Name:
    Tim Keseluk
    Where did you hear that driving with falling oil pressure is a good idea? It's one thing if you are flying a bombing mission in a B17 at 28,000 feet with nowhere to land. Quite another when your cars blood (a pretty good analogy) is pumping out as you drive. That 12 cylinder engine depends on that oil for lubrication and cooling (it is what keeps the hundreds of moving parts from scraping each other to death). The oil pressure gauge is only giving you a reading on the oil before it enters the system (the highest point) as it circulates down stream its relative pressure continues to decrease. If this value drops significantly you should STOP! In your example it seems that the oil level was the problem and you should have stopped and bought a case of oil and periodically filled it as you drove home.

    It is possible that you "dodged a bullet" and nothing serious is hurt but you should carefully consider whether a 348 or 355 is a good choice for you.

    With regard to the original problem and the repair your guy did. I'm curious about what had to come from UK, be modified, cost big $$ and ended up worse than before. Fixing leaky cooler hoses are not neurosurgery and could have been done with locally available parts.

    I think you got "hosed"
     
  6. Crawler

    Crawler F1 Veteran

    Jul 2, 2006
    5,018
    The point being that both sufficient oil pressure AND volume are necessary. Like the previous poster noted, the OP gauge is reading pressure at its highest point and is not intended to be an indicator of whether the volume of oil is adequate. If you have plenty of oil, but no pressure (as with a pump failure), you're in trouble. Conversely, you'll likely get some kind of pressure reading with a very low oil level, but without an adequate volume of oil distributed throughout the motor, you're also at risk.

    Do you remember whether your temperature gauge was reading warmer than normal?
     
  7. billg

    billg Formula Junior

    Jun 7, 2006
    307
    New Orleans
    Full Name:
    Bill Grady
    It was not warmer than normal. On the larger issue, I'm really going to have to take more of a hand in maintaining this car. Either that, or buy something less tempermental.
     
  8. Davidindallas

    Davidindallas Formula Junior

    Nov 5, 2003
    344
    Bill,

    Given that you didn't have an abrupt and spectacular stoppage you're probably ok. I think the issue is not with the car being tempermental. It's just an old car with old lines and hoses. Any twenty or thirty year old piece of rubber is going to fail eventually. I don't think you'd find any less of a problem with a 72 Mercedes 280SL or like automobile.
     
  9. dstacy

    dstacy F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 23, 2006
    11,782
    GMT -5 & GMT +1
    Full Name:
    Dave
    woulda, shoulda, coulda...

    In the future remember that a few quarts of oil is a lot less expensive than an engine.
     
  10. billg

    billg Formula Junior

    Jun 7, 2006
    307
    New Orleans
    Full Name:
    Bill Grady
    It turned out okay. I went to the garage today, they put some oil in it, cranked it up and it sounds normal. Before he added the oil, I checked the dipstick and it was registering about a half inch, maybe slightly less, from tip of the stick. The mechanic seemed unconcerned. Still, this raises a larger issue in my mind. I bet many of Ferrarichat's 'lurkers' are similarly unschooled in things mechanical and are shy about revealing their lack of knowledge in a chat as generally knowledgeable, competitive and ego-driven as this one. Assuming a person wants to own a Ferrari -- he likes the way it drives, say, or the attention it brings, or whatever -- but knows little about anything mechanical, how should he proceed. One cannot rely totally on the busy garage owner, so beyond checking the oil, what should be done. Which Ferraris are best for the uninitiated?
     
  11. Ken

    Ken F1 World Champ

    Oct 19, 2001
    16,078
    Arlington Heights IL
    Full Name:
    Kenneth
    One should know basics, like the cost of an engine rebuild. Armed with that info, one can then decide how far to drive with a major oil leak. Personally, I would have flat bedded the car to my house (or mechanic in your case).

    These cars are not like an iron block pushrod Chevy. You can't run when overheating (you will warp the heads), you can't run with a blown head gasket, you can't run when oil or gasoline is leaking, you can't drive if you hear funny sounds from the engine. These cars will self destruct more often than not in a "limp home" situation. Get an AA card and a cell phone, and you can drive with peace of mind.

    Ken
     
  12. dstacy

    dstacy F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 23, 2006
    11,782
    GMT -5 & GMT +1
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    Dave

    I've always said the 2 most important tools you can have in any old sports car are a cell phone and an american express card.
     
  13. ricar116

    ricar116 Formula Junior

    Aug 2, 2005
    409
    Bolivar, Missouri
    Full Name:
    Rick Carr
    It's better to be lucky than good sometimes. Most of my mechanical knowledge has come from the Nike school of just doing it with a manual. Somtimes lessons are frustrating and expensive. I can assure you that every mechanic has made an expensive and with hindsite ignorant mistakes. People who are not mechanical that want to own any old car need to find a trustworthy mechanic. Hey you dodged a bullet congrats and you learned somthing... could be worse.
    Rick
     
  14. billg

    billg Formula Junior

    Jun 7, 2006
    307
    New Orleans
    Full Name:
    Bill Grady
    I did learn something. I'm going to get the AAA card tomorrow and stop treating this car like it's one of these great-in-their-own-way American vehicles. I was remembering an article I read years ago in some car magazine, where the American journalist goes to one of the great car companies in Italy to review an Italian car, something fairly exotic. The executive of the company -- Lancia, Alfa, whatever -- insists on driving. They're going along a 2-lane road, the Italian exec flailing the hell out of the car, passing into the oncoming lane with milliseconds to spare before a head-on collision, and the reporter yells over noise of the wind and the engine, 'What do you think of Japanese cars.' The exec says, without yelling, 'I don't drive Japanese cars.' The reporter, probably seething because they wouldn't let him drive, screams, 'Well they're eating your lunch!' At which point the driver passes the car in front, squeezing back into his lane seconds before an oncoming truck would have flattened them both. Then he calmly turned around, and drove back to the plant, same hair-raising style, without saying another word. Anyway, I was thinking, what car building countries do I respect. Having had Porsche, etc., I say Italy first, the U.S. second. And that hasn't changed. Mechanical skills aside, you either get it or you don't.
     
  15. Ken

    Ken F1 World Champ

    Oct 19, 2001
    16,078
    Arlington Heights IL
    Full Name:
    Kenneth
    I had a mechanic to begin with and realized I could screw up my car for a lot less money than he did. I'm not a great mechanic myself but at least when I do things three times to get it right, I've learned something new. One thing I've developed is confidence that I can fix almost anything in the car myself.

    Of course, for the most complex tasks like cam timing, a newbie might want to get a pro; you don't get a second chance if you screw THAT up!

    Ken
     
  16. ricar116

    ricar116 Formula Junior

    Aug 2, 2005
    409
    Bolivar, Missouri
    Full Name:
    Rick Carr
    Exactly!
     
  17. billg

    billg Formula Junior

    Jun 7, 2006
    307
    New Orleans
    Full Name:
    Bill Grady
    Turns out the problem is leak in the oil cooler unit itself, a black can the dimension of a book by an author with little to say. Mechanic said he found one and it came with about an inch of dust on the box (original equipment). It's bolted in there along with everything else. Many say the vehicle is no mystery mechanically, I'm starting to think that's true and may buy a tool chest. Apparently we have one of the last precomputer Ferraris here. I'll let you all know when I buy the tool box so you can visit your priest/rabbi/imam.
     
  18. Artvonne

    Artvonne F1 Veteran

    Oct 29, 2004
    5,379
    NWA
    Full Name:
    Paul
    Once you see a drop in pressure on the gauge, oil has dropped below the pickup and the pump sucked air. Air foams the oil and offers no lubrication at all. I would not be surprised if you suffered bearing damage. Just because its quiet and holds good pressure means almost nothing. The pump and relief valve are far oversized and can easily maintain pressure with major losses present in the system.
     
  19. billg

    billg Formula Junior

    Jun 7, 2006
    307
    New Orleans
    Full Name:
    Bill Grady
    Time will tell, eh Paul VonKallberg? Meanwhile, as far as that slumbering beast in the driveway is concerned, it should continue keeping its problems to itself.
     

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